Re: answer to kenney former Re: Spirit Pond, Maine

From: Seppo Renfors (Renfors_at_not.com.au)
Date: 10/20/04 

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:04:44 GMT

"I.E. Johansson" wrote:
>
> "Seppo Renfors" <Renfors@not.com.au> skrev i meddelandet
> news:4174C193.A5EE663E@not.com.au...

[..]

> > I was rather more looking at the other contributions made to the
> > topic. Just note the pathetic replies received on this topic already.
> > They don't even know what day it is, let alone what century, I'm sure.
>
> That, I have suspected for long :-)
>
> Anyhow can you get hold of
> Tallgren Aarne Michael, Die Kupfer - und Bronzezeit Nord- und Ost Russland,
> Helsingfors 1911, page 145-150?

No, not in this corner of the globe.

> If so take a special look at what's written
> about tehe 15 forms for bronze-tool being produced. 3 definitely
> Scandinavian(Swedish or Norwegian) 2 probably Scandinavian, 8 definitely
> Ural area type, 2 probably Ural area type. I doubt that you in Australia can
> get hold of the excavation reports from Russia.

I have found a couple - even relied on some works from there.

> I had reports from among
> other that site some years ago. There was an edited work by a Russian
> Nobleman or Prince, don't remember which, who wrote about this and the
> edition was made short before the Russian Revolution in 1917. That you might
> get hold of.
>
> There exist written documentation from Pre-Roman Iron Age up to 1650 from
> the area Ural Mountain over Finland to North Norway as well.

Not possible. The Finno-Ugric languages are very new in a written form
- it did not exist back then.

> Some of it is
> very surprising. One I got hold of, an Arabic source which I had a photo
> taken from(I can't read Arabic so that translation was made by a scholar
> from Asia Minor) showed a drawing from some now lost document from which the
> drawing was copied, the drawing that someone must have been using skiis in
> 4th century BC. That's not necessarily important but interesting all the
> same.

I have seen pictures (or rock paintings at least) of people on skis
from around 4000 BCE and that is around Lake Onega area. On the web
somewhere there is a catalogue of cave paintings and petroglyphs found
in Russia. I saw it some time ago.

> > > Longer of course, but you see there are so many written Prime sources
> which
> > > directly show that your assumptions aren't correct and that it's not
> your
> > > fault but the fact is that a major part of the documentation for the
> Kvens
> > > normally aren't presented and thus discussed.
> >
> > You and I will have to agree to disagree about the origins and
> > language of the Kvens in any case. He have had that discussion in the
> > past already.
>
> I can prove you wrong, but it's a long long presentation of the facts and
> arguments. I have started to look for my notes to speed up my writing.

There is an interesting site, "UNESCO Red Book on Endangered
Languages: Northeast Asia."

http://www.helsinki.fi/~tasalmin/nasia_report.html

It talks about the minority languages in North and East Russia and
the language group they belong to. 

-- 
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised 
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The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is
misled.
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