Re: Homo floresiensis

From: Martin Reboul (martin.reboul_at_SPAMFUKvirgin.net)
Date: 10/30/04 

Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:29:56 GMT

"Tom McDonald" <tmcdonald2672@nohormelcharter.net> wrote in message
news:10o35b968l71c8c@corp.supernews.com...
> Per Rønne wrote:
> > Martyn Harrison <nospam@spammers.of.the.world.unite> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Two items of significance, for me, the fact that there could still be
another
> >>intelligent species sharing the planet, obviously.
> >
> >
> > Well, it is said that they descend from Homo erectus, a species without
> > the ability to speak and without the ability to think in any abstract
> > manner - burials of the dead is only found in species H.
> > neanderthalensis and H. sapiens.
> >
> > Furthermore, these newly found H. floresiensis specimens [the word
> > "hobbit" seem to be the every-day name given to the species] had a brain
> > at only 1/3 of H. sapiens. I wouldn't call such a species sentient or
> > intelligent.
>
> Their body mass appears to have been about 1/4 that of modern
> H.s.s., so I think the jury is still out about their
> intelligence. I want to read more about the material culture
> found associated with H.f. That is going to go some way to
> answering the intelligence question.

Ah, the little people... I thought they'd be discovered in Ireland or Cornwall
first, you never can tell.

Quite seriously, if it is possible, DNA analysis on them should be most
interesting. Midgets (of about this size and build) have been born throughout
history - are they a throwback to some distant ancestors, who were assimilated
somehow?
Dwarves are an example of another subspecies of humanity IMO - there's nothing
'wrong' with them health wise AFAICS, they are just a different shape, and have
been with us forever it seems, as they are part of us.

Small but perfectly formed... I always liked that expression. Too small to take
on Homo Sapiens I fear - or were they? There's more than one way of taking them
on.

As for 'intelligence', I loathe that word and all the nonsense that goes with
it. It is meaningless... what does it mean? To some, looking at little coloured
shapes and putting them in order, doing arithmetic and knowing English. It has
nothing to do with adaptability and ability to survive any more, by the
standards of what psychologists call 'intelligence', the most intelligent people
I know are probably the least cunning, crafty and ruthless....

One old favourite is "which is most intelligent, cat or dog?". It is irrelevant,
as it is like saying 'are apples or pears most like an orange?', but has been
argued at length for centuries. They are both 'intelligent' but in entirely
different ways....
One is a pack predator with strict heirarchy of King, vassals and concubines -
man's best friend - ultimately 'loyal' - we tend to operate the same way. The
other is a more solitary beast, utterly ruthless and completely egocentric,
which finds a good life if it can, and learns how to please to keep it - at any
cost! Both are admirable and intelligent, but not comparable in that
characteristic.

As for brain size, I can't believe it has anything to do with 'intelligence', as
the world of dogs demonstrates perfectly. I have known many dogs over the years,
and their perceived (note 'percieved' - I am a human, not a dog) intelligence
has nothing to do with size. The wicked intuitive craftiness of a Dachsund with
a head the size of a tennis ball, was far in excess of a Basset Labrador cross,
with a brain pan the size of a melon. Prudence, a mongrel of German
Shepard/Sheepdogish tendency, was the cleverest creature I ever knew, apart from
a few humans, and certainly ran rings around and outwitted many Homo Sapiens
with consummate ease and haughty disdain. Ive seen hamsters brighter than Great
Danes, and rats more cunning than Rottweilers, but the other way round too.

I say you can't assess or quantify 'intelligence', as our human standards apply
to us, and us alone - and even then means little. The bigger something gets, the
more cluttered and confused... samll, stripped down systems do less but work
faster.

It's like DOS vs. Windows XP. Run them both on the same machine, DOS can't do
much, but does the right thing hard and fast. Windoze takes you round all the
options very slowly, before suggesting you should get some new security updates
from the MS website, and calling a helpline...

Spiders operate with deadly sefficiency with unbelievably tiny brains, by
relying on a highly advanced 'sensoray array' (esp visual... amazing system!),
as do sharks.

I think that's quite enough, I need a lie down...
                 Cheers
                           Martin