Initial reaction to Cinq-Mars 11/17/2004

From: Lee Olsen (paleocity_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 11/17/04 

Date: 17 Nov 2004 07:13:28 -0800

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/palanthsci/message/22469
Cinq-Mars (message 22469):
"1. A bit of historical background.

Some of the basic elements of Stanford's (and Bradley's) "Solutrean
Solution" hypothesis were first brought up in:

Greenman, E. F. 1963. The Upper Palaeolithic and the New World.
Current
Anthropology 4(1): 41-91."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually first brought up (in the journals 1912, but even much earlier
elsewhere)
Newsgroups: talk.origins,sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: [PBS][NOVA] America's Stone Age Explorers
 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:30:37 +0000 (UTC)

Lee Olsen wrote: Message-ID:
<40a73547.0411102041.54d12f87@posting.google.com>

1) William H. Holmes, Bearing of Archaeological Evidence on the Place
of Origin and on the Question of the Unity or Plurality of the
American Race, AMERICAN ANTHROPOLOGIST n.s., 14, 1912:33
 "The question is, however, one of race and not culture elements
coming from trans-Atlantic sources, even if plainly manifest, might
mean very little with respect to racial make-up." "The student
examining certain collections of primitive antiquities discovers that
a particular form of chipped flint knife-blade occurs in America and
also in the Old World, and explains the occurrence by the oft-observed
fact that with a given state of culture, given needs and given
materials, men of all races reach kindred results."
 

Then)E. F. Greenman, The Upper Paleolithic and the New World. CURRENT
ANTHROPOLOGY, Vol. 4-No. 1 February 1963. Typical quote from just one
of the negative reviews: "I am somewhat disturbed by the fact that a
paper such as Greenman's should have been written in the first place."

3)Lawrence Guy Straus, Solutrean Settlement of North America? A Review
of Reality, American Antiquity, 65(2), 2000:219 "The Solutrean
techno-complex of southern France and the Iberian Penninsula is an
impossible candidate as the "source" for either pre-Clovis or Clovis
traditions in North America."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cinq-Mars (message 22469)
"In conclusion, there is no "hard" evidence whatsoever that can be
used
to demonstrate that the North American Clovis tradition is related to
the European Solutrean one. Nor is there any valid
contextual/biogeographical evidence that such a "connection" was ever
possible, i.e., ever occurred."
------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo
Subject: Re: What killed off the Neanderthals
 Date: 22 Jan 2004 14:39:14 -0800
Lee Olsen wrote: Message-ID:
<40a73547.0401221439.5dd13fea@posting.google.com>
"I disagree about the edge knapping technique and any similarity with
the Clovis outre passe or overshot technique (Stanford and Bradley
2002). Several years ago, after reading the arguments in
<http://www.ele.net/art_folsom/preclvis.htm>
I emailed Baker and explained that I did not agree with the overshot
idea and gave him my main reason why. Not knowing him, I figured my
comments would go in the waste basket, so I only told him about one of
my arguments, rather than waste a lot of time. Much to my surprise, he
replied back saying he had since changed his mind and that he agreed
with me. That was end of conversation. Two years passed and nothing
changed on the web page. I figured he was just being polite in
agreeing just to get rid of a pest or had changed his mind again.
Then, the web page was finally changed.
<http://www.ele.net/art_folsom/preclvis.htm>
Baker: "An example of this change in ideas is I now discount the
theory of a Solutrean-Clovis connection as suggested in......." Since
he has now seen the originals and photographed them, it will be
interesting to see how much influence this will have on his thinking."

Stanford and Bradley (2002) have a long ways to go, their promised
book is long over due. I'm sure Cinq-Mars' comments will not help move
up the publication date ;-)

Relevant Pages

  • Initial reaction to Cinq-Mars 11/17/2004
    ... Cinq-Mars: ... American Race, AMERICAN ANTHROPOLOGIST n.s., 14, 1912:33 ... F. Greenman, The Upper Paleolithic and the New World. ... Solutrean Settlement of North America? ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: Back-migrations to Asia (attention: Gisele)
    ... > pete wrote: ... > The tools don't look Solutrean any more than they look Late Paleolithic ... as a point but yes there is at least a vague resemblance though the American ... Prev by Date: ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)