Re: Answer to Martin R regarding AVM on KRS

From: I.E_Johansson (inger_e.johansson_at_telia.com)
Date: 12/18/04 

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:50:29 GMT

"Doug Weller" <dweller@ramtops.removethisdemon.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:6cl7s0tggqaa430gqcv18jg8elbsimnpo9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:25:56 -0000, in sci.archaeology, David B. wrote:
>
> >Martin Reboul wrote in message <7pFwd.190$mj4.45@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>...
> >>
> >>"I.E_Johansson" <inger_e.johansson@telia.com> wrote in message
> >>>
> >>> The Grey Friars used AV respectivel M for Ave Maria in 13th and 14th
> >>> century and those abbrevations were not only common but known long
> >before
> >>> the Freemasons of C19 had been born. The usuage of AVM without a space
> >>> between V and M goes back long before C19 as well.
> >>
> >>Comments Martin R: AV is not AVM.
> >
> >To clarify: " av' " and " M. " are two different types of abbreviation
The
> >first is more a kind of speed-writing, indicating a common letter or (as
in
> >this case) a common Latin ending, with a quick mark. The second is an
> >initial-letter abbreviation; for combinations meaning "Ave Maria" one
would
> >expect either something like AV' M'RI' in the first system, or simply
A.M.
> >in the second.
> >
> >>Have you any reference to any document from the 14th century
specifically
> >using
> >>the letters 'AVM' to represent 'Ave Maria'?
> >
> >Well Inger, have you? What's the oldest you can quote in context?
>
> Didn't she say something about unique occurrences? Which is a nice getout.

Doug,
AV followed by M is correct no matter what David B seem to believe. Some
today try to make believe that all changes in how to write abbrevations and
how to spell happened during a very short period. That's not the case. For
abbrevations in the period when Latin came to be less used then before there
are many mixes of 'rules'. Not as easily dismissed as David B assume. Does
there exist a 'AV' followed by an 'M'? yes it does. I don't have exact
dating nor can I say if there is or isn't a small space in between of the
'AV' and the 'M'. I haven't checked the original myself. that's not my
'plate' to put on the table.)

Inger E
>
> Doug
> --
> Doug Weller -- exorcise the demon to reply
> Doug & Helen's Dogs http://www.dougandhelen.com
> A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
> Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
>
>

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Answer to Martin R regarding AVM on KRS
    ... > today try to make believe that all changes in how to write abbrevations ... Not as easily dismissed as David B assume. ... Alan Crozier ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Answer to Martin R regarding AVM on KRS
    ... >first is more a kind of speed-writing, indicating a common letter or (as in ... >this case) a common Latin ending, with a quick mark. ... Doug Weller -- exorcise the demon to reply ...
    (sci.archaeology)
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