Re: 5000 year old city in Peru.

From: Eric Stevens (eric.stevens_at_sum.co.nz)
Date: 12/30/04 

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:18:06 +1300

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:09:08 GMT, Philip Deitiker
<Donevenask@worlnet.att.net> wrote:

>"Daryl Krupa" <icycalmca@yahoo.com> says in
>news:1104362890.625948.293130@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
>>
>> Philip Deitiker wrote:
>>> "Daryl Krupa" <icycalmca@yahoo.com> says in
>>> news:1104291750.334869.320440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>> > Hmmm ... so, by Larry's logic, it was the _Egyptians_ who were
>>> > too stupid to collect rocks in a pile, until the native
>>> > Americans showed them how to make pyramids ... maybe it were
>>> > Paleo-Eskimos who showed the Norse how to make cairns ... sauce
>>>
>>> he would never accept this.
>>
>> No, of course he wouldn't have; it's just amusing to
>> think that cultural diffusion of the idea of rock-piling
>> civilisation could have originated somewhere near Inner
>> Mongolia, and then carried by proto-Inuit across the
>> Bering Strait to Greenland and beyond, allowing similarly
>> wide-ranging germanic people to borrow the idea and then
>> transmit it to the southern lowlands in the Eastern Med.,
>> Mesopotamia and Egypt, from whence far-faring voyagers
>> carried the idea to central America and elsewhere.
>> The idea of gathering rocks in a pile would also have diffused
>> southward and westward from Inner Mongolia,
>> of course.
>> Mongolia ex patria.
>> We are all Mongoloid, under the skin.
>> Once you start with this diffusion idea, there's
>> no end to the possibilities, is there?
>
>Heretical i would say, lol, but on the idea of cultural diffusion,
>just about everyone is raised by a father, mother, etc.
>Obvious heritary lineages can carry culture, so if you want to amuse
>yourself, if the incipient Jomon had pottery 13 to 16 kya, why didn't
>they take the technology to the new world.
> My guess is that it only takes a few generations in a place where
>the craft is impossible to disrupt the spread of technology.

Think Lapita

>Extremely important technologies, such as tools, may be improvised
>in new locations with new targets and new raw materials. I have a
>suspicion that there are to many paralleles between the incipient
>Jomon, paleoAmur cultures than can be explained by simple coincidence
>particularly when considering the genetic issues. However after
>exploring many of these I have discounted most as 'needing critical
>support in terms of new discovery'. For example if they discovered
>pottery older than 12 kya in the new world, or at a site far north
>where it is currently thought to have originated. etc.
>
> But one of the ideas I have not given up is the food culture
>relationship. I am suspicious that the 'seeds' of Jomon culture are
>in the region of persia and middle east, and in that suspicion I
>think that the common lentil, which is one of the earliest of the
>'light agriculture' domesticants made its way to east asia, but it
>did not grow well. However prior to abandoning its use, I suspect
>that a local alternative was found, the azuki and was found in many
>places simultaneously and the lentil was abandoned as being
>unsuitable to the climate. I beleive that enough people were familiar
>with the 'light agriculture' in the eastern siberian, japan region
>that when some of these reached the new world in various waves, some
>of them may have brought and tried azuki only to find it also failed
>to thrive in new world climate of the time. These individuals then
>found new alternatives, as they had done in Japan, and we now have
>the common bean and lima bean as a result. This is the limit of what
>I would proport as precolumbian cultural diffusion. I am sure that
>'some' norse technologies were picked up by the inuit, if for no
>other reason than amusement of curiousity, however I am not sure how
>well the Inuit fared after the 14th century in most parts of
>greenland. That may have been the end of Norse diffusion.
>[Fortunately Inger ignores me so she won't read these lines and
>go ballistic as she always does, also she is not interested in the
>Peruvian contribution to NA culture as this does not Jibe with her
>fantasies]

Eric Stevens

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