Re: Cocaine in ancient Egypt?

From: Eric Stevens (eric.stevens_at_sum.co.nz)
Date: 01/17/05 

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:47:12 +1300

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:11:53 GMT, "University Studies"
<gov-statistics@no.spam> wrote:

>"JMB" <jmb@utvinternet.ie> wrote in message
>news:351t67F4g231oU1@individual.net...
>> "University Studies" <gov-statistics@no.spam> wrote in message
>> news:wDOGd.3594$hC2.1512@trndny04...
>> > "JMB" <jmb@utvinternet.ie> wrote in message
>> > news:351o03F4g3h6kU1@individual.net...
>> >> "University Studies" <gov-statistics@no.spam> wrote in message
>> >> news:RNNGd.5364$Vx2.3243@trndny01...
>> >> > "Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
>> >> > news:3qtmu0162m1883b0fpuuqakgesv8nq7evk@4ax.com...
>> >> >> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 04:37:59 GMT, "I.E_Johansson"
>> >> >> <inger_e.johansson@telia.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> skrev i meddelandet
>> >> >> >news:bmqlu0tts1mll0gfmf9obalt1r94biqd93@4ax.com...
>> >> >> >> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:04:03 -0000, "JMB" <jmb@utvinternet.ie>
>> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >"Julian Richards" <see@sig.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >news:taglu0pkei4nlfjm4ea43uj3gfv2dllftr@4ax.com...
>> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:20:46 +0100, "Soren Larsen"
>> >> > <sohela@tiscali.dk>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>"Julian Richards" <see@sig.co.uk> skrev i en meddelelse
>> >> >> >> >>>news:unalu01shnekgl7p4d81d8amrlsoe2cqei@4ax.com...
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> One intriguing possibility that I have seen suggested is
>that
>> > the
>> >> >> >> >>>> stuff went to Africa via China, ie "the wrong way around",
>> > which
>> >> >> >seems
>> >> >> >> >>>> to me to be even more difficult.
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> Whatever the truth of the matter, the sailing technology of
>> >> >> >> >>>> the
>> >> > time
>> >> >> >> >>>> seems to be up to the job of such a crossing.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>What kind of vessel available in the Atlantic 1000 BC do you
>> > think
>> >> > was
>> >> >> >> >>>capable of setting up a reliable trade link between Africa and
>S
>> >> >> >America
>> >> >> >> >>>with the necessary payload capacity?
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> But does it have to be a reliable trade link with shipping of
>> > heavy
>> >> >> >> >> goods? They are running drugs without any customs people
>trying
>> > to
>> >> >> >> >> stop them. Drugs one way, gold going back the other with the
>> >> > Egyptian
>> >> >> >> >> elite willing to pay top whack for what is otherwise
>> >> >> >> >> unavailable.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I think you are confusing modern drug cartels with ancient
>trade.
>> >> > There
>> >> >> >was
>> >> >> >> >no embargo on the importation of drugs, nor on their
>manufacture.
>> >> > There
>> >> >> >> >were plenty on local sources that did not require perilous,
>secret
>> >> >> >> >trans-Atlantic crossings.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I don't think the crossings need have been particularly perilous.
>> > The
>> >> >> >> major problem was that when relying on sail you do not find your
>> >> >> >> way
>> >> >> >> back by retracing the route you took out (and that applies to
>> > journeys
>> >> >> >> starting on either side of the Atlantic). It is conceivable that
>> > ships
>> >> >> >> made a one-way journey by accident, but getting home again with
>the
>> >> >> >> story almost requires a second accident. But once the first round
>> > trip
>> >> >> >> had been achieved there should have been relatively little
>trouble
>> >> >> >> repeating it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Which might be the case given that there are at least one map and
>one
>> >> >> >seachart showing part of Australia instead of showing the assumed
>> >> > continent
>> >> >> >of the Ancient world.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But not dating back to the time of the pyramids.
>> >> >
>> >> > Eric, it's good to remember that in ancient times the advanced
>cultures
>> >> > (Egypt, Israel, Persia) used the stars as maps for long journeys.
>There
>> >> > are
>> >> > ancient roads maps, usually as sewn tapestries, discovered dating to
>> >> > the
>> >> > time of Ancient Rome and Greece. What would be even more valuable
>would
>> > be
>> >> > an ancient sewn tapestry map of Ancient Jerusalem (might be worth
>$100
>> >> > million or more).
>> >> >
>> >> > Some researchers believe an Ice Age star map wall etching has been
>> >> > discovered in the caves at Lascaux, France.
>> >> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/871930.stm
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> None of which equates to the type of map being discussed by Eric.
>> >
>> > None this equates to the type of map being discussed by Eric?
>>
>> Yes. You know, Eric, the guy you were responding to. He was discussing a
>> map and seachart that showed Australia with Inger.
>
>Right, and then the post went on to discuss possible Atlantic crossings for
>cocaine importation by the Ancient Egyptians.
>(note the subject of this thread and see the quotes below as taken from this
>very thread)
>
>"What kind of vessel available in the Atlantic 1000 BC "
>and
>"I don't think the crossings need have been particularly perilous."

You forgot the rest of the quote.

  "I don't think the crossings need have been particularly perilous.
   The major problem was that when relying on sail you do not find
    your way back by retracing the route you took out (and that
    applies to journeys starting on either side of the Atlantic). It
    is conceivable that ships made a one-way journey by accident,
    but getting home again with the story almost requires a second
    accident. But once the first round trip had been achieved there
    should have been relatively little trouble repeating it."

Note also my more recent comments on the navigational problems.

Eric Stevens

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