Re: Did native Americans cultivate Lime tree?
From: Tom McDonald (tmcdonald2672_at_nohormelcharter.net)
Date: 01/29/05
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:28:39 -0600
tkavanagh wrote:
> <joerevskelton@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:QcAKd.613$RJ2.464@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>>"I.E_Johansson" <inger_e.xjohansson@telia.xcom> wrote in message
>>news:UMzKd.129015$dP1.461761@newsc.telia.net...
>>
>>><joerevskelton@bellsouth.net> skrev i meddelandet
>>>news:alzKd.578$RJ2.229@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>>>"I.E_Johansson" <inger_e.xjohansson@telia.xcom> wrote in message
>>>>news:w4yKd.129006$dP1.461762@newsc.telia.net...
>>>>
>>>>>"tkavanagh" <tkavanag@comcast.net> skrev i meddelandet
>>>>>news:i9udnVAvyqggNWfcRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>"I.E_Johansson" <inger_e.xjohansson@telia.xcom> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:ItxKd.15515$d5.130111@newsb.telia.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In volume 4 of Pehr Kalm's voyage-journal written during his
>>
>>voyage
>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>>>>>North
>>>>>>>America in late 1740's early 1750's Pehr Kalm notes that he in
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>middle
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>woods in southern Canada(east Canada) found avenues of cultivated
>>>
>>>Lime
>>>
>>>>>>>trees, the one we in Sweden call 'Lind'. He also found artifacts
>>>
>>>among
>>>
>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>remains of settlements and broken cheramic pieces. There are
>>>>>>>three
>>>>>>>questions
>>>>>>>that comes to mind:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1. Are the Natives of NA known to have cultivated Lime trees in
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>>middle
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of woods close to minor settlements?
>>>>>>
>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Although Yuri would probably object, NDNs of eastern Canada
>>
>>cultivated
>>
>>>>>lime
>>>>>
>>>>>>trees (Citrus aurantiifolia) in exactly the same amount as they did
>>>>
>>>>apples
>>>>
>>>>>>pre-Columbian, and in the same amount as do the modern residents of
>>>>>
>>>>>eastern
>>>>>
>>>>>>Canada (excep[t in greenhouses), i.e., not at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ATST, following your lead re "Lind", I find in Hortus Third (1976
>>>>
>>>>Cornell)
>>>>
>>>>>>that the various species of the Linden tree (Tilia spp) are
>>
>>sometimes
>>
>>>>>>refered to colloquially as 'Lime Tree' or Basswood. Of these, T.
>>>>
>>>>americana
>>>>
>>>>>>(aka T. glabra Vebren), is found from New Brunswick "s. to Va and
>>>
>>>Tex."
>>>
>>>>>(p.
>>>>>
>>>>>>1113).
>>>>>
>>>>>I am talking about what Pehr Kalm one of the most wellrespected
>>>
>>>biologists
>>>
>>>>>of all time, Professor at Åbo University btw the voyage was sponsored
>>
>>by
>>
>>>>>Baron Bielke. If Pehr Kalm say avenues, then we are talking about
>>>
>>>avenues
>>>
>>>>>not only cultivated lime tree which we call 'Lind'. So the question
>>>>>is
>>>
>>>are
>>>
>>>>>the native of North America known to have cultivated that species in
>>>>
>>>>avenues
>>>>
>>>>>in front of houses in the middle of woods? Not if they cultivated the
>>>
>>>tree
>>>
>>>>>or not. That question you answered in your next paragraph.
>>>>
>>>>You appear to have missed the information athat "lime trees" cannot be
>>>
>>>grown
>>>
>>>>in Canada, except in greenhouses.
>>>
>>>You on the other end appears to have missed the information that 'lime
>>>trees' in Great Britain is same as Linden(thanks Alan for that one) in
>>>NA.
>>>Latin name: Tilia cordata. And they not only can be grown in Canada......
>>
>>No, I caught that; your failure to acknowledge that you were using a
>>terminology alien to the geography you were discussing made me think you
>>had
>>failed to notice it. Alan provided the name "Tilia Americana" or "Tilia
>>galba Vebren" as a NA species of Linden native to the region.
>
>
> Please note that there is no "Alan" in this thread except for that unknown
> person invoked by Inger. It was *I*, tk, who identified the T. americana
> species as the North American linden.
tk,
In the interest of fairness, Alan Crozier did post on this
thread, letting us North American types know that when Europeans
say "lime" tree, they often mean "linden" tree.
>
>
>>Is Tilia cordata an alternative name for the same species or is it another
>>species also grown there?
>
>
> T. Cordata is the *European* linden; it is somewhat different from T.
> americana.
For one thing, I don't know that T.c. has the nice, big leaves
just perfect for...erm, bathroom tissue.
-- Tom McDonald http://ahwhatdoiknow.blogspot.com/
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