Re: The first Swedes + seed

From: Seppo Renfors (Renfors_at_not.com.au)
Date: 02/05/05 

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:07:25 GMT

JMB wrote:
>
> "I.E_Johansson" <inger_e.johansson@telia.com> wrote in message
> news:40wMd.129481$dP1.463015@newsc.telia.net...
> > Alan,
> > if you spoken to BB that's good for you. One other told me the other day
> > that they hadn't met or spoken for several years. Don't know why. Anyhow
> > your interpretation is 100% wrong no matter what.
> > Your interpretation is in my and my friends(Ph.D, MA and BA in History
> > used
> > to read 1700's documents in their daily work) so far from the truth that
> > it's no use discussing it at all.
> >
> > Inger E
> >
>
> Inger,
>
> Can you give any example of someone using "på andra sidan" to mean
> "opposite" rather that "on the other side of". If you can do that, then
> people may believe you, if you can't then no reasonable person can.

Sight...... I find it difficult to accept some people around here
claim to be educated - a CHILD can give an example of that, why is
there a need to even ask? The language used is unimportant - it is the
same in both cases.

Here is an example, "In Canada on the other side of Illinois is a
farm", I can be IN Canada and say that, and it is 100% understandable,
but it doesn't matter where the hell in the world I am for that to be
correctly understood. - it can also be said "There is a farm opposite
Illinois in Canada." - it is EXACTLY the same meaning to both
sentences and does indeed have the meaning "opposite" as "the other
side" most often has

However if this is the text the argument is about:

"Monsr. La Croix, som mycket rest i södra delen av Canada, berättade,
at på andra sidan om Illinois finner man i skogen på många ställen de
der vilt växande fruktträd planterade som i lineer."

First some assumptions are required, not mentioned in the text, that
"Illinois" is the US State of that name. A further problem is that
"Canada" by that name seems to come into existence in 1791 when the
Constitutional Act, divided Quebec into Lower Canada and Upper Canada
(which is below Lower Canada) - or after the period the text relates
to. The borders with the US are substantially same as they are now.
See:

http://tinyurl.com/6jgby

In any event Illinois was French till 1763 and British till 1783, but
the territory has been known as "Illinois" from the early 1700's
French explorers, it is said to originate from the local native word
"Illiniwek" for "men".

Therefor I have to assume that some later author/editor has resorted
to refer to modern borders and names.
 
Then let my clarify the meaning of that text. The words "på andra
sidan om" is ambiguous and can be read two ways if one is silly enough
to focus solely on them. That it applies to an area south of Illinois
-OR- an area in South Canada. More is required to be known. Simply
looking at the remainder of the text and taking the ordinary natural
meaning of the words, it then must be understood to refer to "Canada".

The reason is simple. It is an understanding given by the other words
- eg; "La Croix, som mycket rest i södra delen av Canada" - it refers
to "much travelled in southern Canada" - NOT "South of Illinois", does
it. So, you have no context to indicate a possibility of being able to
refer to "South of Illinois" - then the ambiguity is solved - that
part must be discarded as incorrect - it then leaves only one
possibility ie "Southern Canada". Simple really! 

-- 
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised 
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The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is
misled.
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