Re: The first Swedes + seed

From: Philip Deitiker (Donevenask_at_worlnet.att.net)
Date: 02/13/05 

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 05:02:23 GMT

"Daryl Krupa" <icycalmca@yahoo.com> says in
news:1108269448.718704.213350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

>
> David B wrote:
>> Daryl Krupa wrote in message
>> <1108190618.590592.34850@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...
>> >
>> > Okay, it's possible that some veteran of the French
>> >trading post near Churchill wrote up a travelogue that
>> >included a reference to "oxar och boskap" ("oxen and
>> >livestock"? "oxen et bétail"?) that was read by
>> >someone-or-other in some variation, perhaps after a
>> >confusion with bison and/or domestic cattle was
>> >introduced into a later edition, who then related the
>> >account to somebody else, and eventually Kalm, whose
>> >French was imperfect, heard about it during a drinking
>> >party
>>
>> Not exactly. Kalm had evidently read Jeremie's account
>> in the "Recueil des voyages au nord", including the
>> details of musk-oxen (and the picture with the caption
>> linking Hudson Bay and Mississippi valley wild bovines)
>> so at the "drinking party" he asked M. le Duc whether
>> he had seen such things himself.

IOW he considered American Bison and Musk Oxen to be graded variants
of the same species?
 
> David B.:
> Aarrgghh.
> Okay, so Kalm had previously read Jeremie's account in
> Bernard's "Recueil". I stand corrected.
> But still, Kalm probably got the account at least
> fourth-hand
> (Kelsey --> ? --> Jeremie --> Bernard --> Kalm).

You do know that Secondary and Tertiary accounts do not have the
'ripeness' for Inger to use as a source. A primary account
does _not_ make good prime sauce, the best prime sauce comes from
finding the higher order account of something that is more concise in
the primary or secondary accounts.
  Or to put it otherwise, you as a fish, should not be too surpised
when you see a hook being pulled from your mouth that was attached to
a metal spoon, you might be less surpised when it is a rubber worm
that resembles the real thing, and even less surprised if is a real
worm on your hook. But once the ole bass gets snagged with a metal
spoon, certainly he will not strike at metal spoons again.

 
> That picture that you refer to would be this one, right?
>
> http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/mediator.exe?F=C&L=02300720&I=33
>
> Not a musk-ox.

Not a buffulo either, could be either, or neither.
 
> I still have problems with Jeremie's description;
> on pages 19 and 20 of this English translation,
> Jeremie says that
>
> "
> The oxen have very short legs. so that their wool
> always drags along the ground when they walk, and
> this so confuses their appearance that even when
> only a short distance away, it is difficult to
> tell which end is the head.
> "

Buffulo do this during molt, from a distance it could be confused as
short legs.
 
> So, on the basis of three features of musk oxen
> that Jeremie got not-quite-right, I must be very
> suspicious of his having ever seen them in the wild.
> I still think that he might have gotten their
> geographical location wrong, too (i.e., just north of
> the mouth of the Churchill River).

That would make me right however ;^).
Consider however that the cold period between 1362 and 1850 might
have altered body proportions and range for a period. And from 1850
to present as the range returned the body proportions shifted back.
 
> If Jeremie were to have created his own drawings,
> perhaps he would have produced something like these:
>
> http://dancivagallery.dk/zoo7.html

Damn those vikings, now we know who they bred with!
Inger is right, we know the fate of the Norse! Why their DNA
does not appear in the Inuit, it was preferentially admixed
with a whole different phyla. 

-- 
Philip
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