Re: Hyenas, Dogs and crossing the Bering Strait

From: I.E_Johansson (inger_e.johansson_at_telia.com)
Date: 02/15/05 

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:40:20 GMT

"tkavanagh" <tkavanag(unmphd)@comcast.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:9IOdneo1Qf6BxY_fRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>
> "I.E_Johansson" <inger_e.johansson@telia.com>
> wrote in message
> news:UJrQd.130533$dP1.466470@newsc.telia.net...
> >
> > "tkavanagh" <tkavanag(unmphd)@comcast.net> skrev
> > i meddelandet
> > news:WfidnRzCYJqAoI_fRVn-3g@comcast.com...
> >>
> >> "I.E_Johansson" <inger_e.johansson@telia.com>
> >> wrote in message
> >> news:OCqQd.17481$d5.138832@newsb.telia.net...
> >> >
> >> > "Doug Weller"
> >> > <dweller@ramtops.removethisdemon.co.uk> skrev
> >> > i
> >> > meddelandet
> >> > news:17b411hrm6vm51bifd33d9l5gslotkuv6g@4ax.com...
> >> >> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:05:55 -0500, in
> >> >> sci.archaeology, "tkavanagh"
> >> >> <tkavanag(unmphd)@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"I.E_Johansson"
> >> >> ><inger_e.johansson@telia.com>
> >> >> >wrote in message
> >> >> >news:aFgQd.130474$dP1.466242@newsc.telia.net...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Doug Weller"
> >> >> >> <dweller@ramtops.removethisdemon.co.uk>
> >> >> >> skrev i
> >> >> >> meddelandet
> >> >> >> news:6s3311hmrh0pbrp9vp9va8rjgobollq8rk@4ax.com...
> >> >> >>> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:46:41 GMT, in
> >> >> >>> sci.archaeology, I.E_Johansson wrote:
> >> >> >>> [SNIP]
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >Daryl,
> >> >> >>> >did I or didn't I send you the urls
> >> >> >>> >that
> >> >> >>> >showed dogs to have origined in
> >> >> >> NA
> >> >> >>> >50 million years ago and that Modern
> >> >> >>> >dogs
> >> >> >>> >had
> >> >> >>> >their ancestors by these
> >> >> >> dogs
> >> >> >>> >travelling westward over to China,
> >> >> >>> >Sibiria
> >> >> >>> >area ? If I didn't please let
> >> >> >> me
> >> >> >>> >know
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> 50 million years ago? Inger, you are
> >> >> >>> unbelievable.
> >> >> >>> Dogs are domesticated wolves. So who
> >> >> >>> domesticated dogs 50 million years
> >> >> >>> ago?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>The ancestors of our dogs are in latest
> >> >> >>studies
> >> >> >>said to have origined in NA
> >> >> >> 50 million 50.000.000 years ago.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >You dio have a citation for this, or is it
> >> >> >secret
> >> >> >too?
> >> >>
> >> >> Miacis is supposed to be the ancestor of
> >> >> dogs,
> >> >> cats, bears, skunks etc.
> >> >> An interpretation of how this creature might
> >> >> have looked is here:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://encarta.msn.com/media_461517460/Miacis.html
> >> >>
> >> >> I have seen conflicting claims as to when
> >> >> and
> >> >> where Miacis originated, but
> >> >> there certainly seems to be an early Eocene
> >> >> fossil in Wyoming.
> >> >> http://www.grisda.org/origins/23068.htm
> >> >>
> >> >> Dates seem to range from 40 million years
> >> >> ago
> >> >> to at least 58 MYA.
> >> >> A couple of stages later you get Tomarctus,
> >> >> 10-15 MYA. And from Tomarctus
> >> >> you get all the Canids. That
> >> >> oversimplifies,
> >> >> but Inger's original claim
> >> >> was "did I or didn't I send you the urls
> >> >> that
> >> >> showed dogs to have origined
> >> >> in NA 50 million years ago and that Modern
> >> >> dogs
> >> >> had their ancestors by
> >> >> these dogs travelling westward over to
> >> >> China,
> >> >> Sibiria area ?"
> >> >>
> >> >> Miacis was not a dog, wherever and whenever
> >> >> it
> >> >> originated. Nor was
> >> >> Tomarctus.
> >> >>
> >> >> Dogs -- and I don't mean their ancestors --
> >> >> apparently did *not* originate
> >> >> in North America. However, domesticated dogs
> >> >> have been in North America
> >> >> for quite a few thousand years.
> >> >
> >> > I have seen, can't send any ref or url for
> >> > this
> >> > one, that some say that dogs
> >> > were domesticated in NA almost the same
> >> > period
> >> > as elsewhere. Can be so or
> >> > that's a false assumption, but I wonder how
> >> > one
> >> > can determine that a dog was
> >> > living together with humans if we speaks of
> >> > periods earlier than the human
> >> > made dog graves or dogs buried together with
> >> > humans?
> >> > Is that possible to do and if so is it by
> >> > looking at the teeth or what that
> >> > is established?
> >>
> >> You don't know what you are talking about, do
> >> you?
> >
> > I do know what I am talking about. Mind you ever
> > since we in 5th grade
> > ordinary school had to learn all about graves
> > from Bronze Age with dogs in,
> > and how one then could see that the dog had been
> > regarded as a friend, I
> > have followed the discussion about the dog's
> > origin. Contrary to you, as it
> > seems, I don't feel bad asking for the parts I
> > don't understand to be
> > explained.
>
> So you admit that you don't know what you're
> talking about.

On the contrary tk I know what I am talking about, and I also know which I
would like to know more about. At Länsmuseet in Linköping there is a grave
which was removed from a site with the soil under it in a block. In that
grave from the Bronze Age there is a female, a men and a dog. Interesting
objects as well. But what was said when I was in 5th grade was the same as
was told to students of all age when I worked at the museum and listened in
at the museumpedagog's lessons. It was said that apart from the fact that
the grave and it contents showed that the dog was a domestic one, it was
possible to see on the teeth that a dog was 'living in' with humans. I
always wondered if that's true. The rest about dogs I know a lot about.
Happen to be as interested in dogs as Doug say he is.

Inger E
>
> tk
>
>

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