Re: Merchandise harbor Greenland - killing a Myth
From: Alaca (P.Alaca_at_is.fake)
Date: 03/04/05
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Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:37:42 +0100
Soren Larsen wrote in: 38ro0lF5qlgk1U1@individual.net,
> Alaca wrote:
>> Lukas Pietsch wrote
>>>
>>> Does anybody have a clue what exactly Inger is trying to tell us
>>> this time? (I suppose it's no use asking her herself.)
>>>
>>> Note the beautiful technique: giving a quote with full-blown, even
>>> over-exact reference, so as to demonstrate how scholarly she works,
>>> but a quote that doesn't remotely say anything about what she is
>>> actually driving at. Then a quote that is not referenced (but at
>>> least recognisable to insiders of the debate). Then her main
>>> argument based on alleged evidence with no hints as to references
>>> whatsoever. Lukas
>>
>> I get the impression that she is trying to say everybody
>> but her is denying the existence of a harbor on Greenland.
>> And she thinks she has now proven the naysayers wrong.
>> She calls this "killing a myth"
>>
>> But something new is "a ishmuts/foreland called
>> Herioldzness". I don't know what she thinks
>> 'ishmuts' is, but as far as I know, an isthmus is not
>> the same as a foreland.
>> But I know wat the /ness/ (nes-nisse-nesse-naess
>> in Old Nl, Old E, Old N) of Herioldz is.
>> It is a spit of land, peninsula, promotory, foreland.
>> And so we are back at our cape as turning point,
>> and still no need to translate /hvav/ with /harbor/.
>>
>> Is Ingers "myth" realy killed?
>
>
> She didn't translate Hvarf as 'harbour' but as 'shipyard'
> which is absolutely bonkers, since Cape Farewell (Hvarf)
> is just about the most hopeless place on the globe to
> put a shipyard.
>
> It is midway between the two possible woodsources in
> Norway and Vinland at an exposed location next to
> dangerous waters.
>
> The harbour OTOH is wellknown to all people
> interested in medieval Greenland and it is surprising
> that Inger apparently doesn't recognize Herjolfsnes
> in Herioldzness.
>
> Take a look at this pdf with a nice map of the area
> and norse placenames.
>
> Once you see the map the reason for the location of
> the harbour becomes obvious and the article is interesting
> as well.
>
> My guess is that Inger has confused Hvarf with
> Herjolfsness and her fertile imagination produced
> the 'shipyard' from 'Hvarf'
>
> BTW
> Most of Ingers myths are stillborn.
>
I realised the Hvaf/Harbour mistake too late.
I did no check and she is only talking about a harbour (Sand[en]).
Another mistake I think is that is was the ness from /Herioldz/.
I suppose that must be /Heriold/. Heriold's ness (Or Herjolf's)
Where is that PDF you are talking about?
BTW. My sources for the /ness/ thing were the two main Dutch
etymological dictionaries. The equivalents in (Indo-) Germanic
are: nase, nasa, nasja-, nasjam etc. with the meanings
nase (=nose), vorspringende klippe, vorgebirge.
-- - Peter Alaca -
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