Re: Related languages (Re: A China-Sumer connection)

From: benlizross (benlizro_at_ihug.co.nz)
Date: 03/14/05 

Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:17:31 +1300

John Atkinson wrote:
>
> "benlizross" <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> > >
> > > John Atkinson wrote:
> > >
> > > > And I brought up the case of Tupinamba and its slightly creolised
> > > > descendent, Lingua Geral, which was the main language of all races in
> > > > sixteenth century colonial Brazil, which was legally proscribed by
> King John
> > > > in 1727, and which then proceeded to die out (except for a few
> thousand
> > > > people on the Upper Rio Negro, who still speak it).
> > > > So, I said, here is a case where the native language was forcibly
> forbidden,
> > > > and was replaced. But then I remarked, "Did it die because of the
> > > > proscription, or because its white speakers were swamped by the big
> new wave
> > > > of immigrants from Europe during the eighteenth century? I don't
> know."
> > >
> > > In fact, I think the main factor was the influx of europeans in the late
> > > 17th century, in the great gold and gems rush.
> > > The Lingua Geral probably only got so far as it did for a while because
> > > Brazil was largely unkempt as a colony in the first centuries, all the
> > > interests lying in the East Indies. Knowing the portuguese as I do, I
> > > strongly disbelieve they would massively learn such an alien language if
> > > they made a sizable portion of the population. OTOH, the Lingua Geral
> was
> > > probably a nice means to communicate with all the local populations in
> > > Brazil, since nearly all spoke a Tupi language. But with the later
> > > demographic turn, its prospects were never very good. Point being that
> it
> > > persecution alone wouldn't make it dwindle.
> > >
> > > It's John V, by the way, probably the least remebered of the 6.
> > > --
> > This sounds similar to the history of Chinook Jargon, which was spoken
> > by thousands of people from Oregon to Alaska in the mid 19th century,
> > but faded away with massive white settlement and the end of the
> > frontier.
> >
> > The story about the king forbidding Lingua Geral makes me think of the
> > frequently repeated myth that Chinook Jargon was invented by the
> > Hudson's Bay Company to facilitate their fur-trading operations.
> > Folklore about language seems to attribute unrealistic language
> > engineering powers to individuals and corporate groups.
>
> Yeah, well, the king certainly issued such a decree -- that's not a myth.
> Whether anyone in Brazil actually took any notice of it is certainly
> arguable. With most government directives from the home country around that
> time, the more influential locals seem to have picked out the parts they
> could use to increase their personal power and profit and ignored the rest.
>
> Just like nineteenth century Australia, actually, only more so -- and like
> in Australia, the indigenes were the losers.
>
> John.

Yes, but the point being made in many ways here is that these language
shifts and extinctions normally take place via a multitude of informal
acts and attitudes. It is rare for a high authority to explicitly ban or
attempt to suppress a language. Did the king give reasons for this
decree?

Ross Clark

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