Re: Siberian Arctic site dated to 27,000 BP

From: Daryl Krupa (icycalmca_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 03/17/05 

Date: 16 Mar 2005 22:38:47 -0800

Philip Deitiker wrote:
> "Daryl Krupa" <icycalmca@yahoo.com> says in
> news:1110871980.988948.248400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

<snip>
> > Any pro-glacial lakes were back att the
> > edge of the Canadian Shield. No need for snowshoes.
> > Or canoes.
>
> You can't rule out however marshlands or other obstacles

  Marshlands are easilt traversed in winter.
  In fact, the old winter trails around here
hopped from bog to bog.

> that migth have prevented travel, for example that
> big line of wild grizzleys
> hanging around the other end waiting for stragglers. ;^).

  Giant short-faced bears (at least cm at the top of
the hump, and 3.5 metres tall standing up):

http://www.gateway.ualberta.ca/view.php?aid=842

  Also:

http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/faq/fossils/pdq263.html

"The giant short-faced bear evidently occupied higher,
well-drained grasslands mainly west of the Mississippi
River, whereas the lesser short-faced bear preferred
moister, more heavily-wooded eastern coastal regions.
The former species had reached its northernmost range
(as well as reaching maximum size) in the Yukon and
Alaska by the mid-Wisconsinan interstadial. This is
indicated by a series of radiocarbon dates on bone
focusing on that period.

For example, approximate radiocarbon dates on Yukon
Arctodus specimens are: 44,000 B.P. on an upper footbone
from Sixtymile, 29,600 B.P. on a humerus excavated from
frozen silt on Hunker Creek, 26,000 B.P. on the massive
adult male cranium from Gold Run Creek, 25,000 B.P. on
the facial region of an adult male from Hunker Creek, and
20,000 B.P. on an excellently-preserved cranium of an
adult female from Ophir Creek, which shows that this bear
survived at least until the cold peak of the last glaciation
in Eastern Beringia (unglaciated parts of Alaska, Yukon and
adjacent Northwest Territories). The only other recorded
Canadian specimens are from mid-Wisconsinan deposits at
Edmonton, Alberta and possibly last interglacial deposits at
Lebret, Saskatchewan."

<snip>
> Are you willing to buy that the settlers in northern
> siberia and alaska after 13 kya are derivative soluterean,
> ;^).

  Not unless they had a copious admixture of Basque genes ... ;^)

> Where is this enclave of superadaptive periglacier
> dwellers living between 25 kya and the onset of the
> incipient Jomon? At least 18 kya, we have 7 kya
> missing. The genetics certainly allows for that
> possibility, but . .

  Oh, I dunno, on the now-submerged Arctic Ocean
continental shelf? Wrangel Island? Morphing into
Arctic Hobbitses?

> > If so, why would they not have migrated from the south,
> > down the Yana River from the continental interior?
>
> right.

  I'm not sure what you mean by that "right".

<snip>
> > Yes, but we're talking about an IFC hundreds of
> > kilometres wide, all the way from Siberia to Montana.
> > I.e., the entirety of the Canadian Plains.
> > 80% of Alberta.
> > Dyke's map of ice distribution in the mid-Wisconsinan
> > (i.e., before 24 ka BP) is here (note that the coastline
> > is the modern one; the lower sea level at that time is not
> > represented, so there is no Beringian Land Bridge shown;
> > the outer line is the Late Wisconsinan Maximum extent):
>
> But what if this was uninhabited or lacked any kind of
> vegetation or so sparsely vegetated nothing ranged in
> the region for any length of time. Humans, aside from
> being H/G were also foragers.
> Consider streams were devoid of fish, no or few edible
> plants, and few herbivores.

 "Few herbivores", eh? Other than camels, sloths, horses,
wapiti musk oxen, and mammoths, you mean? What did the
lions eat, then? Prairie dogs?

http://www.pma.edmonton.ab.ca/natural/paleo/collects/collects.htm

  And there is no reason for streams to be devoid of fish.

  None would know better the Mid-Wisonsinan environment than
Dr. Jim Burns, who has examined many, nmany pre-Last Glacial
Maximum megafauna remains, many of them from edmonton, in the
centre of Alberta, about 200 km from the suggested position
of the mid-Wisconsinan ice front:

http://www.pma.edmonton.ab.ca/gallery/retro/_pdf/bonemed.pdf

"Is there a particular Ice Age fossil specimen that you
would love to find?

There are several species that we have not yet found in
Alberta, among which are the Giant Beaver, the Stag-Moose
(it looks like a "cross" between an elk and a moose), and
humans from before the last ice advance.
I see no reason why humans should not have been here before
22,000 years ago."

> > http://members.cox.net/quaternary/NAmericaStage3Ice.gif
> >
> > That's from Jonathan Adams' 2002 review:
> >
> > http://members.cox.net/quaternary/nercNORTHAMERICA.html
> >
> >> The first finds south of the range are now from
> >> 12,500 years ago (with carbon variance).
> >> There are no credible finds in north america,
> >> there are older finds in south america.
> >
> > Okay, but if you look at Dyke's map, you'll see
> > multiple fossil remains
>
> 'The pit in the cave?'

  Many of those fossils were recovered from gravel pits.
  I do not get the reference. Please explain.

-
Daryl Krupa