Re: Greenland Vinland and the Vinland Map part 2

From: Tom McDonald (tmcdonald2672_at_nohormelcharter.net)
Date: 03/25/05 

Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:42:22 -0600

I.E_Johansson wrote:

<snip>

> If you for example ask yourself the question how come that Mandan knew how
> to make glass beads but aren't said to know how to make iron tools, then you
> might be on to something which you missed due to all the mythic stories
> which caused archaeologists and historians not to look closer into what
> might have been learned from Scandinavian contacts.
> During the exploration voyage by Lewis and Clark there is one observation
> noted which at least should have caused a lot of questions and probably
> studies had this been noted and discussed.
> " March 16, 1805 (Mr. Garreau, first white settler in the Dakotas living
> among the Mandans and Arikaras, explained and demonstrated to the Captains
> the process of making the artistic large beads that the Indians admire.)
> " this Frenchman who has lived many years with the Ricares & Mandans shewed
> us the process used by those Indians to make beads. the discovery of this
> art these nations are said to have derived from the Snake Indians who had
> been taken prisoners by the Ricaras.... The Indians are extreemly fond of
> the large beads formed by this process. they use them as pendants to their
> years, or hair and sometimes wear them about their necks-"
> <http://lewisandclarktrail.com/section2/ndcities/BismarckMandan/history22.ht
> m>
> Of course a note from 1805 is a late note. Never the less:
> if it's true that Mr Garreau was the first known white settler in the
> Dakotas;
> and
> if it's true that none known European learnt the Mandans but no other known
> native group how to make glass beads,
> then there are two possibilities and neither can be ruled out before being
> studied:
> 1. The Mandans have one way or an other themselves learnt how to make such
> glass beads.
> 2. Some Europeans might before 1805 have learnt the Mandans how to make such
> glass beads.
>
> Both options are possible, but dismissing the possibility that for example
> the Norse Greenlanders settling down or trading up to first half 1500's when
> the last documented direct contact between Greenland and Scandinavia/Papal
> Church existed, that definitely aren't a scholarly approach at all. It's
> better to start with looking at how Scandinavian glass beads looked like
> during Viking Age and Medieval Age.
>
> First a comparing with Bronze Age glass beads: last photo right
> <http://www.tjorn.se/misc/vagarbete/v723/>
>
> 7th -9th century glass beads
> <http://www.lansmuseum.a.se/databas/visabild.cfm?in_bildnr=LD98-0416&in_knnr
> =0123>
>
> Viking Age:
> <http://www.lansmuseum.a.se/arkeologi/barkarby/bild198.html>
>
> Viking Age - Medieval Age
> <http://www.hum.gu.se/ark/anl/andra_material.htm>
>
> There might be or there might not be any alike glass beads among the Mandan
> made from 1800's. That's never been studied as far as I know

        Where does the Louis and Clark journal entry you cited mention
_glass_ beads? Glass is not mentioned in that reading.

        As for whether Mandan decorative artifacts have been studied,
why have you not done your homework to find out? You are basing
a good part of your argument on glass beads being made by the
Mandan within 67 years after they were first contacted by La
Verendrye (in 1738). If the Lewis and Clark journal does not
mention _glass_ beads (they mention large _artistic_ beads;
could there be an issue with the translation of 'artistic' as
'glass'?), then does your argument fall to the ground? 

-- 
Tom McDonald
http://ahwhatdoiknow.blogspot.com/

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