Re: The Vinland Map's Ink


"Tom McDonald" <tmcdonald2672@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Sba4e.1490$yL2.701@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Eric Stevens wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 21:32:48 -0500, Tom McDonald
>> <tmcdonald2672@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Eric Stevens wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 01:06:48 +0200, "Alaca" <P.Alaca@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Steve Marcus wrote: nMZ3e.74333$7z6.33400@lakeread04,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>3) Properly formulated iron gall ink will darken to an extent even
>>>>>>before applied to the substrate. See the quotation above from the
>>>>>>linked source.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some days ago I quoted this:
>>>>>"" Oak gall ink takes time to reach its optimum state.
>>>>> Over the course of six months, this ink will gradually
>>>>> darken.
>>>>> It continues to darken after applied to vellum
>>>>> or paper, and may appear faint when first applied. ""
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/5lqw3 (manuscriptarts.net)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Which is why, if the VM was originally drawn with faulty ink, the
>>>>scribe may not have known that the ink was faulty for several days.
>>>
>>> Which lands us in the re-inking situation you have been talking about as
>>> being difficult to the point of impossibility.
>>
>>
>> First, it is doing it undetectably which I regard as next to
>> impossible.
>
> I know. But I understood you to be making the case that there are no
> detectable mistakes such as one would expect to see from re-inking on the
> VM. If that's incorrect, let me know. I haven't been following this as
> closely as I might, as some of it has been in your posts to Steve Marcus,
> which, after considering that life is short, I mostly skim or skip.

One point that Eric neglects is that any "detectable mistake" that would
occur as a result of reinking a quill pen would also show up on a map in
which the lines were not traced one over the other. That is, when drawing a
map as extensive as the Vinland Map, even a single line drawn directly on
the parchment would ultimately run the quill out of ink to the point where
it would have to be reinked.

So the start/stop effect that Eric is going on about has nothing at all to
do with whether the Vinland Map was drawn by tracing black "ink" over
yellowish "ink." One would expect to see evidence of the quill having been
lifted from the parchment and reinked, (or reinked without being lifted in
accordance with one of Eric's posts), whether the ink was traced over a
previously drawn line or layed down directly on the parchment.
>
>>
>> Second, that has been reinked is only a hypothesis. Another
>> possibility is that a yet as unidentified ink was used which separated
>> into two phases on the paper. The first phase left the yellow
>> (possibly gelatin based) stain in the paper and the second formed a
>> black layer on top. The black layer was improperly fused to the lower
>> layer and has since flaked away. This is not an altogether unknown
>> behaviour for carbon based inks.
>
> The case you raised was what might happen had the scribe used faulty ink,
> and not known it for some days. If that were the case with the VM, then
> re-inking would have been the only way to arrive at the current situation.
> Well, other than starting over with good ink.

Which is what any scribe would choose to do, seeing as how re-inking would
require at least as much effort as starting de novo, but would add the
additional task of having to carefully go over the previously drawn line.

>>
>> Before you say that the two-phase deposit is ridiculous you should
>> remember that this is exactly what McCrone suggested to explain the
>> presence of the anatase, except that he hypothesised a modern
>> UV-setting printing ink which had never been set. I believe the recent
>> identification of what isn't in the black pigment now makes McCrone's
>> particular suggestion improbable.
>
> I ridicule few ideas from generally rational people, and would not do so
> in this case unless it was patently ridiculous on its face. To my
> knowledge, it is not. However, my knowledge of the chemistry of inks is
> limited to the point of non-existence, so that isn't saying much.
>
>
> --
> Tom McDonald
> http://ahwhatdoiknow.blogspot.com/

Steve
--
The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
should not be construed as either. This posting does not
represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... >map as extensive as the Vinland Map, even a single line drawn directly on ... >do with whether the Vinland Map was drawn by tracing black "ink" over ... To be indetectable, the pen drawing ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: V.M. last word
    ... > Circa 1974 McCrone et all was engaged to do a study of the Vinland Map. ... > Anatase and it's polymorphs. ... > Towe says: ... > concentrated in the ink and not distributed over the parchment" Towe 2004 ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • V.M. last word
    ... Circa 1974 McCrone et all was engaged to do a study of the Vinland Map. ... Anatase and it's polymorphs. ... Towe says: ... concentrated in the ink and not distributed over the parchment" Towe 2004 ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Hines-Renfors-Johansson-McCulloch team of scientific experts explain Vinland Map ink
    ... Repeated requests have been made to those who cling to Vinland Map ... The Renfors Facts? ... The Cahill PIXE analyses found anatase, not only in the ink ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... I guess you haven't read and followed the Greenland, Vinland and Vinland map ... > for the other potential explanations for the ink on the Vinland Map by ... > soften the parchment. ... The process adds modern anatase from the coating ...
    (sci.archaeology)