Re: The Vinland Map's Ink


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:l1kk515iu7ejktnoke1vdj14g2hr4d17t2@xxxxxxxxxx
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:34:48 -0400, "Steve Marcus"
> <smarcus_spamout_@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>news:be4j51pich01ll612n8rvd90qpr34g12h4@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:00:26 -0400, "Steve Marcus"
>>> <smarcus_spamout_@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:inpg515ghd42lgh5hfkai0999m44pi7io0@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 08:28:27 -0400, "Steve Marcus"
>>>>> <smarcus_spamout_@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
> --- snip ----
>
>>> The problem seems to be one of focus. I have focussed on Enterline's
>>> theory re bleaching as the source of the anatase. It seemed to me that
>>> this is the important part. In proposing that theory Enterline has had
>>> to produce a hypothesis based on the the then known evidence as to the
>>> nature of the ink which was to be affected by the bleaching. You and
>>> Towe seem to have been focussing on Enterline's theory as to the ink.
>>>
>>> More recenly, Enterline has extend his original theory re bleaching to
>>> show that it could also work with Ink as proposed by Olin. The
>>> essential core of Enterline's hypothesis, that the anatase came from
>>> the bleaching operation still stands. That's the part he hasn't
>>> changed and in my mind that is the principal part which is why I did
>>> not realise that you were concentrating on his original theory as to
>>> the ink. In any case, that too is still there.
>>
>>The best answer to this is the answer that Dr. Towe has already supplied:
>>
>>"Additionally, the story requires a subsequent TOTAL cleaning of an
>>already
>>poorly visible ink and the intervening parchment in a bleaching process
>>**with the potential to dissolve the tannin as well as soften the
>>parchment**. The process adds modern anatase from the coating of special
>>paper, not only to the scribe's second overlying ink application but also
>>to
>>the original underlying ink. No anatase from the overlying paper is added
>>to
>>the parchment which, being semi-tanned protein (collagen) should also be
>>softened and solubilized. (The cellulose in paper is much less reactive to
>>"Clorox"; parchment is proteinaceous). In offering this story, Enterline
>>provides none of the usual scientific details (sources of materials,
>>concentrations of reagents, times of application, etc.) on the process he
>>speculates was used to clean the map. He offers no explanation for the
>>yellow color of the ink, nor shows that his cleaning process will actually
>>work on parchment, the procedure having been tested on paper only."
>>(Emphasis supplied.)
>>
>>Nota bene: One can substitute an ink as per "Jacque's carbon separation
>>hypothesis" for the ink as described above (two layer with the underlying
>>layer being yellowish as per the original "defective iron gall ink"
>>hypothesis, and thereby introduce some the problem of why we don't observe
>>this sort of "separation" on ancient documents. What still remains are
>>all
>>of the problems described above vis-a-vis the reaction of parchment to the
>>bleach, and the issue of why, the hypothesized cleaning added no anatase
>>to
>>the parchment, but added anatase just to the "bottom layer" of the ink.
>>
>>Enterline is certainly welcome to try, and undoubtedly will, but I'm
>>afraid
>>that this dog just won't hunt.
>
> It's too early to tell yet. By the way, did you notice that you
> changed the subject from why Towe and I seem to disagree over
> Enterline's views to whether or not Enterline's hypothesis has any
> merit?

Nope, there's no subject change. Enterline stated (per Dr. Towe) that he
was abandoning his hypothesis with respect to everything but the bleaching.
In abandoning the mechanism required to explain the yellow underlying line
and the black line that overlies it, Enterline abandoned a critical point.
Going with carbon separation doesn't explain the two distinct appearing
lines on the VM (which are out of register in some places). What he retains
of his theory is the aspect by which modern anatase gets on the VM, but that
was always weak since it does not explain how the anatase gets on only
selected areas of the parchment. Neither does it explain how the parchment
somehow survives dissolution due to the bleach, but no anatase seems to get
"into" the parchment.

> You may want to argue about this but I have no inclination to
> follow you.
>

Naturally you don't. You believe that it does, and will adhere to it
notwithstanding the absence of any experimental proof of it. On the other
hand, you reject the findings of McCrone and Brown/Clark with respect to one
line being drawn over the other, notwithstanding that it explains all of
their observations.
>
>
> Eric Stevens
>
Steve
--
The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
should not be construed as either. This posting does not
represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... >> theory re bleaching as the source of the anatase. ... >> nature of the ink which was to be affected by the bleaching. ... >> Towe seem to have been focussing on Enterline's theory as to the ink. ... >the parchment which, being semi-tanned protein should also be ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... all we can say is anatase ... is not unknown in the ink of other documents. ... > paint from rooms in which the map has been exposed. ... > A traditional way of cleaning documents was by bleaching. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... McCrone's discovery of anatase in the ink of the Vinland Map appears ... A traditional way of cleaning documents was by bleaching. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... He accepts that the ink ... >>already poorly visible ink and the intervening parchment in a bleaching ... The process adds modern anatase from the coating of special ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... When I presented the case = presented what's been found in the ink he said ... result would have been found in ink after clean mineralsand been poured over ... > I have obtained a copy of Plenderleith. ... > applied to the print while it is dry and removed after the bleaching, ...
    (sci.archaeology)
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