Re: The Vinland Map's Ink

Eric Stevens wrote in message ...
>
>nettiquette (that old fashioned word) suggests that you
>should have identified the fact you were omitting some of my text. As
>it is, you are in danger of being accused of distorting what I
>actually said.

Which would be true, because I did distort what you actually said.

>David B. wrote:
>>
>>a) You were correct only in the squinkiest sense, in your understanding
>>that "the anatase" has been [by implication solely] found in the yellow
>>layer where the upper layer has been lost.
>
>There is nothing 'squinky' in establishing the manner of the finding of
>the anatase. Nor is it so much 'squinky' as deceptive to try and hide
>the manner of it's finding.

Blame the Cahill team for not indicating the omission of crucial
information from their report.

>>b) You were utterly incorrect in your sole alternative "has carbon been
>>peeled away to expose anatase".
>
>Once again you have quoted me only in part. You have omitted the
>question mark '?' from the end.

That doesn't alter the fact that you offered an either/or choice which did
not include the true situation.

>>PIXE does not distinguish between what is "exposed" and what is "hidden"-
>>the beam goes through the whole lot.

>First, re PIXE see http://www.mrsec.harvard.edu/cams/PIXE.html
>
> "Since most of the characteristic x-rays emanate from the top few
> microns, for accurate measurements it is important that the sample
> be homogeneous to within the micron level.
>
>That is, PIXE has been detecting Titanium principally in the upper
>layers.

That's more true of modern PIXE (3 MeV proton beam) than the cruder
technique (4.5 MeV beam) used on the VM; also, in this case the upper layer
was virtually pure carbon, which PIXE doesn't resolve. The surface effect
would be much less significant, and this was quite possibly a factor in the
anomalous quantitative conclusions by the Cahill team.

>Second, and this has been covered before, PIXE does not determine that
>the Titanium that was found was in the form of anatase.
>
>Now do you understand why I asked the question you consider to be
>'squink'?

See below

>>Unless there is a third layer, containing Ti in a form
>>other than anatase, which survives solely beneath the black layer, we
must
>>assume that the Ti underneath the black is from anatase.
>
>Why? I'm not trying to be difficult. It's a genuine question. Can the
>presence of other forms of Titanium be excluded?

Yes, except in the hypothetical situation outlined in my sentence above-
because of the results from Raman and the various techniques used on
microsamples by the McCrone team.

>I thought one of the points made about the black line was that it
>flaked away from the yellow layer very easily. Now you say 'it adheres
>strongly'.

Yes. Because 90% of it has flaked away, it had been assumed that it flakes
away easily. However, the fact that stray "black" particles include
remnants of yellow suggests that the assumption is incorrect, and that the
"flaking away" has been achieved only by the use of significant effort.


David B.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... >>That's more true of modern PIXE than the cruder ... >>technique (4.5 MeV beam) used on the VM; also, ... the thickness of an ink line (bearing in mind that the 50nm you quote is ... The titanium-containing layer of the ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... >>understanding, or has carbon been peeled away to expose anatase in the ... my omission was not accidental. ... >layer where the upper layer has been lost. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... >>>layer where the upper layer has been lost. ... >>>the beam goes through the whole lot. ... PIXE has been detecting Titanium principally in the upper ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... Eric Stevens wrote in message ... ... >>>upper layer has been lost. ... or has carbon been peeled away to expose anatase in the ... It seems most likely that the reason for the slightly higher concentration ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Vinland Maps Ink
    ... >>anatase was found under the carbon upper layer. ... > (or Ti for elemental analyses) in the yellow but not the black. ... > levels underneath, whereas Raman, which is non-penetrative, finds decreased ...
    (sci.archaeology)