Re: The Vinland Map's Ink

Eric Stevens wrote in message ...
>
>On Fri, 06 May 2005 02:36:47 GMT, "David B" <tronospamchos@xxxxxxxxx>
>wrote:
>>
>>it very often turns out that historians (etc.) have not known
>>certain key facts which dramatically alter the meaning of what they do
>>know.This is just somehing that they have to live with, because the
>>evidence is very often not easily available.
>
>Which is a very good reason why they should not say that something IS
>but that it 'might' be. In fact the books I have read describe what
>isn't know - 'there are no known letters from Bismark to the Kaiser
>for the period between June and November' - and then announce their
>speculation.

Yes, that's the sort of thing I try to write myself. On the other hand,
there are things about the Vinland Map ink that can be treated as "IS"
rather than "might be", such as the presence of titanium, the virtual
absence of iron, the presence of both elemental carbon (concentrated in the
black) and organic compounds (a major one of which was identified with
a bit less certainty, by McCrone's later tests, as gelatin).

>Your problem is rather like mine with the announcement of the AVM
>stone. People have made use of the best evidence there is (Note that
>it is not 'no evidence') only to later find that it is wrong.

Yes indeed- by the way, did anybody ever put forward the hypothesis that
the AVM stone was forged by Olof Ohman?

>>In the case of
>>the Vinland Map ink, hypotheses of a medieval origin are not at all
>>easy to defend, because they seem to rely at the very least on extreme
>>incompetence by the alleged medieval cartographer.
>
>That's only if you accept the hypothesis that the map has been
>manually reinked. :-)

No, there's also Enterline's original notion of forgetting to put the iron
in iron-gall ink (to be fair there are pure tannin based non-accidental
inks from the middle ages, though those which have been compared with the
VM ink don't match anyway), and the general problem that the ink is in two

distinct layers, which would not be the case even with a standard carbon
ink formulation.

>>The hypothesis
>>that the anatase has come from a modern brown/yellow pigment is
>>very easy to defend, because it is known that the exact sort of anatase
>>crystals found on the Vinland Map can be made by a process which was
>>originally designed to create yellow/brown pigment.
>
>You almost tempted me to enter into a discussion there. :-)
>
>Apart from that I will only remark that the objective always was to
>produce a white pigment and that the very early (1916 process) HAD to
>be used in yellow or brown, simply because they were discoloured by
>impurities.

Fair point, but it doesn't necessarily get us anywhere. Anatase was (and
is) used not mainly as a white pigment but as a lightener/opacifier; what's
not entirely clear is the extent to which impure anatase continued to be
used as either a pigment or as a lightener/opacifier for brownish colours
(it is not necessary to assume that the anatase was the main pigment,
particularly given the identification in McCrone's later tests of ochre in
the VM ink).

>>those who believe the map to be a
>>fake can justifiably demand that those who believe it to be real
>>should produce a better hypothesis.
>
>I might try, if I had a better idea of the nature of the ink.

If the recent Danish investigation comes up with anything new, you may yet
get that chance.


David B.




.

Relevant Pages

  • Hines-Renfors-Johansson-McCulloch team of scientific experts explain Vinland Map ink
    ... Repeated requests have been made to those who cling to Vinland Map ... The Renfors Facts? ... The Cahill PIXE analyses found anatase, not only in the ink ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: V.M. last word
    ... > Circa 1974 McCrone et all was engaged to do a study of the Vinland Map. ... > Anatase and it's polymorphs. ... > Towe says: ... > concentrated in the ink and not distributed over the parchment" Towe 2004 ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • V.M. last word
    ... Circa 1974 McCrone et all was engaged to do a study of the Vinland Map. ... Anatase and it's polymorphs. ... Towe says: ... concentrated in the ink and not distributed over the parchment" Towe 2004 ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Mr Towe libelling
    ... > Repeated requests have been made to those who cling to Vinland Map ... > The Renfors Facts? ... The Cahill PIXE analyses found anatase, not only in the ink ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: VM reading lesson
    ... > regarding the ink. ... > information it seems to be all about the parchment. ... resulted in the 20th century anatase turning up on the Vinland Map. ...
    (sci.archaeology)