Re: Why only crap in this NG? (was Wolter claims ...)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 10:49:38 GMT, "IEJ" <Iejohansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
>news:gpll91t2rmi6uu58m6p8j1chjmqeds0vdt@xxxxxxxxxx
>> On Mon, 30 May 2005 07:09:11 GMT, "IEJ" <Iejohansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
>> >news:o13l91de6bmmblvglsfserj9al7fpp46m9@xxxxxxxxxx
>> >> On Mon, 30 May 2005 02:27:24 GMT, Philip Deitiker
>> >> <Donevenask@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> says in
>> >> >news:cpqk919grm7rpgsshetksmghvqlan08ogu@xxxxxxx:
>> >> >
>> >> >>>There are people and there are times. She is arguing Norwegian
>> >> >>>and Swede after 1350, not Norse during the 11th century.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You seem to be equating Norse with Viking. They are not the same
>> >> >> thing.
>> >> >
>> >> >The Viking period ended at the end of the 10th century. The
>> >> >greenlanders were christianized thereafter and would have been Norse.
>> >> >The swedish state with recognized borders did not begin until 1323,
>> >> >however a partial definition was in place by the 12th century. Prior
>> >> >to that people would have been informally called Swedes if they were
>> >> >from eastern trading portion of the viking world, prior to 1323 there
>> >> >was a contested claim over finland, so at that time the Swedish state
>> >> >would have been Swedo-finnic.
>> >>
>> >> All of which is correct.
>> >
>> >Not at all correct. Sweden's borders were recognised in a tract between
>> >Sweden, Denmark and Norway in early 11th century. Officially the
>consensus
>> >refer to the 12th century meeting in Kongahälla 1101, but there are
>> >fragments left of the earlier meeting which was held in Olof Skötkongungs
>> >days. Sweden as a country is documented long before that. Unfortunatly
>for
>> >the Icelandic Sagas which tried/tries to make believe that it started in
>Old
>> >Uppsala there are documents older than the mythical Bråvallaslaget which
>> >confirms that there was a type of union between the Goths living in
>> >Wisigothia and Ostrogothia on one hand and the group living around
>> >Aros(Västerås, Västmanland) in Migration Age whenever enemies were
>> >attacking. The oldest mentioning of Sweden as a country goes back before
>> >migration age and stipulates that it starts on the eastern shore of
>Wigotha
>> >Elf.....
>> >
>> > They all come under the umbrella term
>> >> 'norse'. See http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Norse
>> >
>> >Not in Medieval Age. That's a later fabricated word which assumes that
>the
>> >Roman Historians meant the same with the Latin words they used for
>'Nordmen'
>> >and people living in the Nordic countries.
>>
>> You will have to argue with the dictionary. It says " Of or relating
>> to medieval Scandinavia or its peoples, languages, or cultures."
>
>English Dictionary I presume, not Scandinavian ones. There is a distinct
>difference from Migration Age up between the different Scandinavian groups
>and countries.

Inger, we are all writing in English. I'm using english words with
english meanings.

>> >
>> >In Medieval Age up to 1390's there were a clear distinction between the
>> >three Nordic countries: Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Finland belonged to
>> >Sweden as it done most of the time since Hermaneric's days.(Roman and
>East
>> >European sources up to 1115 AD) What's also forgotten is that the real
>Kvens
>> >up to around same period were in majority north of a line from Gävle to
>> >Bergen.
>>
>> But what are Nordic countries if not Norse?
>
>Norse is your way of placing four eggs that used to be three eggs under one
>and the same hat. But we aren't in a hat. There are and have always been
>very strong borders between our different groups. Skane has belonged to
>Sweden since mid 1600's but many Skåningar as well as many here doesn't look
>upon them as Swedes.

But in the english world we tend to look on them all as norse.



Eric Stevens

.

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