Re: Why only crap in this NG? (was Wolter claims ...)
- From: nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 13:07:24 GMT
Apparently on date Tue, 31 May 2005 13:47:46 GMT, Philip Deitiker
<Donevenask@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
>nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx says in
>news:8t5o915hqfea5olfhcmjjqctl68t7qvk8s@xxxxxxx:
>
>> Apparently on date Mon, 30 May 2005 15:36:50 GMT, Philip
>> Deitiker <Donevenask@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
>>
>>>nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx says in
>>>news:gnql91dnasjj8gld2264f28tk3aokqi66s@xxxxxxx:
>>>
>>>> Apparently on date Sun, 29 May 2005 11:23:50 -0500,
>>>> kenney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:
>>>>
>>>>>history of America is minimal. Also, as you point out Columbus
>>>>>had no idea he had discovered a new continent. Though of
>>>>>course Columbus did not get past the Caribbean.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, AIUI Columbus was a skilled astronomer and would have
>>>> been able to tell where he was by the stars and things.
>>>
>>>With out a maritime clock one has no idea what longitude one is
>>>at. The only european with details accounts of the western
>>>pacific was marco polo at that time, and he did not have details
>>>of the eastern most islands. So That there was no way columbus
>>>could have known by astronomy where he was in terms of the earth
>>>equitorial
>>
>> This is incorrect, you can use astronomy to locate your
>> longitude without a ships clock.
>>
>> This was the reason I asked, too.
>
>Its not very easy to do, you need to be on dry land, and the
>calculations require and expert mathematician.
No it doesn't, I gave you the example showing why it doesn't and what Columbus
did. All he had to know what what time an eclipse took place.
Let me spell it out again for you, try not to snip it all and repeat your wrong
assertion, as you did last time:
In 1494, Sept 14/15 there was an eclipse, I don't know what time it was but can
check it in redshift if that matters.
Columbus reported the time of this eclipse and before you say they didn't have
any idea of the time, they did, to a reasonable amount (minutes rather than
hours). Let's say for simplicity that he timed it at exactly midnight.
As in the various almanacs the eclipse was due to happen at 5.23am local time
in Cadiz.
Therefore, the timing of the eclipse gives you the difference in local times
and this gives you the longitude. In this example it would be 5'23 difference
and 5'23 / 24 = 80 degrees.
The more astute among those reading this may spot that this would put Columbus
about as far west as Chicago and that the true situation was that he was on an
island about 62 degrees west of Cadiz.
That's correct. His measurement of the timing of the eclipse was mistaken,
instead of it being midnight, he recorded it as midnight when it was actually
quarter past one in the morning.
This offers various explanations but one leaps out of the page at me:
If Columbus had been correct, the Earth had been smaller and Japan that much
closer to Europe, his calculated position from dead reckoning would have added
up nicely to give that 5 hours, 23 minutes west of Cadiz longitude.
Therefore, he reported it that way to continue the myth that he had reached
Asia when in fact he was in the West Indies. The big question there, did he
know the eclipse really happened at 1.15 am or did he really think it happened
at midnight? Being off by over an hour is a gross error even by 1500 standards,
and it seems like far too much of a coincidence that the error neatly supports
the misconception he already had.
Now you can tell me what part of the above was impossible for Columbus (who
could have been on a ship at the time, but probably wasn't)?
.
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