Re: What's So Important About KRS?

Doug Weller <dweller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> says in
news:a91jc15uovpdi9a8rhu1rg4ee3hsf7a2ni@xxxxxxx:

>>Too early for celts????
>>http://www.french-at-a-touch.com/French_History/history_The_Celts
>>_1000BC-150 BC.htm
>>"Celtic Background
>>Herodotus, and other Greek writers, used the word Keltoi in
>>reference to the people who dominated much of western and
>>central Europe from the 2nd to the 1st millennium BC. These
>>Keltoi give their language, customs, and religion to the
>>Paleolithic peoples of that area. Keltoi ultimately became
>>Celt, which was also spelled Kelt [Latin Celta, plural Celtae].
>>To the Romans, the Continental Celts were also known as Galli,
>>or Gauls. "

I should note that even those that use the word show that celts moved
from east to west with early greek accounts, first showing up in what
the romans called gallia, and later being seen in 'galicia' region of
spain.

>>>From the 2nd to the 1st millennium BC means three to
>>four thousand years ago.

> The problem is that your source is not exactly accurate, to say
> the least. For instance, Paleolithic is old stone age - a period
> which lasted over 2 million years and ended about 10,000 years
> ago -- that site is really really bad!

Many journalistic sources confuse paleolithic with prehistoric.
A few biochemist have been known to do the same, ;^).

>> It is obvious that you have no knowledge of the Celts or
>>their civilization.

Ohhhh, I enjoyed this one, I think we are going to see a beautiful
relationship develope here.

> The latter says "The first references to the Celts are in Greek
> authors from as early as the 5th century B.C. They are placed
> rather vaguely in western Europe, in southern France, or at the
> headwaters of the Danube. At that time Greek knowledge of
> western Europe was rather slight...Greek use of the term 'Celts'
> at this time must be understood in the context of their
> perception of the world,; 'Celts' might be no more than a
> general geographical term for the people to the west..."
> "From the early fourth century B.C., migrations are recorded
> from central Europe to the south and southeast. To the Roman
> historians these people were known as the Gauls, and this term
> was taken to be synonymous with 'Celts'.

But the romans later distinquished the gauls and what the considered
to be the migrants. I think that archaeology would clearly place the
earliest migrations of protocelts (derivative as gauls) in the
catagory of the 9th to 7th century, but reaching north eastern spain
as a result of later waves, in the early roman period.

> So, thousands of years is an exaggeration, and there is no
> reason to put Celtic speaking peoples in Brassempouy or anywhere
> in southwestern France in the 2nd millennium.

Possibly at the very end of the 2nd millennium. The etruscans, basque
and according to some sources, the people who lived in provencial
france weren't celtic, but basqo-etruscan, and would have been
intermingled with phonecian and greek traders. the closest
genetically related node is the flemish on the continent and I would
expect that these three groups were pushed towards the extremes as
the earliest celts moved in. Better genetic typing of villages in
france might resolve regional nodes in france, but by and large
france looks like an admixture from all directions, and I suppose
that romans, iberians and austrians (what I would consider the most
likely point of origin of the 'genetic' celt), later contributions of
the norse are also present.
I would argue that there was significant geneflow from austria
into france, but in terms of gene flow to all of france, or from
austria into Ireland and England, it seems very unlikely, and the
genetic distinction of the flemish indicates that the extend of
direct austrian influence was in eastern gallia and culture influence
spread from there.
The best evidence of celtic activities is this:

http://www.unrv.com/empire/gallic-sack-of-rome.php
"
In the 5th and early 4th centuries BC, migratory Germanic tribes
pressured Gallic Celts living in the Danube regions to push South in
search of new territory."
" The Gauls crossed the Alps en masse capturing and settling Etruscan
territory by force.
"
http://www.unrv.com/empire/gallic-sack-of-rome.php
http://resourcesforhistory.com/map.htm
[There are a number of errors on this map]

I think the germanic expansion seems to make some sense, and the
ambient migration of celts and admixture from austria, switzerland
and southern germany probably did not result in a distinctive celtic
culture, but the massive expansion that appears about the time of the
po valley invasion is probably the result of a singular large
migration.

.

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