Re: Ancient American Settlement


Doug Weller a écrit dans le message ...
>On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:35:42 +0200, in sci.archaeology, maison.mousse
>wrote:
>
>>
>>JMB a écrit dans le message ...
>>>I haven't noticed any links to this story over the last while, so I
figured
>>>I'd post the link since it seems to be doing the media rounds today:
>>>
>>>http://www.mexicanfootprints.co.uk/
>>>
>>>Some evidence of people in Mexico almost 40,000 years ago, but absolutely
>>>nothing to indicate that they came from Sweden!
>>>
>>>--
>>>John Byrne
>>
>>http://www.mexicanfootprints.co.uk/
>>worth a visit!!!
>>
>>When I was a boy in the 1950's The "truth" about the pre-Columbus
settlement
>>of North
>>America was that "around 19000 years ago during an Ice Age people from
Asia
>>crossed the Bering
>>Straits on a land bridge" and that was it until C. Columbus showed up.
The
>>idea that Vikings ever
>>reached N. America at all was considered silly at best.
>
>I thought you were French?
>
>When I was a boy in Florida I was taught that the Norse sagas that told
>about Leif visiting America were true. This would have been in the early
>50s.
>
> Nobody serious
>>would pay attention to that Thor Heyerdahl person ("not even a American
you
>>know" they said).
>>Now a few other people besides M. Heyerdahl thought the Bering Strait
land
>>bridge migration theory was nonsense. These people included almost all
>>geologists who had studied the glacial periods and also the people of
Wales
>>Alaska whose ancestors had been going back and forth to Uelen Russia via
>>Inalik Island by boat for as far back as any one knew until the "cold war"
>>stopped
>>traffic and divided families that lived on either side of the straits.
>
>I can't comment on the 50s, but people have known about that for a long
>time, esp. about comparatively recent Inuit migrations which certainly
>weren't over a land bridge. The argument is that both land bridge and
>water were used.
>
>> It is safe to assume significant migration across the straits was mostly
>>limited to warmer periods such as the Medieval Warm Period' (AD 700 -
1300)
>>with mean temperatures 6 to 7°F warmer than today.
>
>I don't know what you mean about 'significant migration', we are talking
>about very small groups of people perhaps. And people still cross today,
>even on the ice.
>
>>http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Design/index.cgi/noframes/read/1637
>>Now Thor Heyerdahl who proved that people could travel from Polynesia to
>>America and back chose to upset people by crossing the Atlantic in reed
>>boats "called the Ra I and Ra II in 1969 and 1970 in order to demonstrate
>>that the ancient Egyptians were capable of crossing the Atlantic".
>> A few years ago a young man set out to be the first to swim the Atlantic
>>using a paddle board.
>>The paddle board was equipped with provisions and solar cells to power his
>>satellite phone
>>in case he got any book or movie deals on the way over. The board did
not
>>have any sail, motor
>>or even an oar. His trip was a simple matter. He maneuvered his (large)
>>paddle board into the westerly 6 knot current off Africa and after 20 some
>>days ended up in the Gulf of Mexico suffering only from acute boredom. I
>>don't know if ever made any money off his little project. But he added
>>insult to the injury inflicted on the "Europeans could not have came here
>>crowd" by M. Heyerdahl .
>
>Sure, it is possible to get across the Atlantic, no one doubts that. It's
>a far cry from that to evidence though.
>
>>
>>DNA evidence has determined that the population pre-Columbus of the
Americas
>>had many different sources, mostly Japan, China and Mongolia but also
>>Europeans and very likely Polynesian..
>
>No it has not. There is no DNA evidence, for instance, for Europeans, and
>the rest is oversimplified.
>
>>Evidence that Europeans (term to include north Africans) were in North
>>America many thousands of years ago was strongly indicated by the
discovery
>>of " Kennewick Man" several years ago in the State of Washington and has
>>been carbon dated as being 9,000 years old.
>>Even discounting the "Kennewick Man" evidence as some have, the other
>>evidence ,both genetic
>>and other wise, prove beyond a doubt multiple sources of pre-Columbus
>>immigration to N. America.
>
>There were multiple sources from Asia at different times, we know that.
>The Inuit for instance came over about 4000 years ago. But this should be
>no surprise - particularly if some of the older dates are true, which
>suggest people coming over 40,000 years ago or more.
>
>If you read the official report you'd realise Kennewick man isn't
>European.
>
>>
>>ASIDE:
>>John Cabot - or Giovanni Caboto visited Bonavista in 1497. and
>>"While there is no firm evidence of European explorers in Newfoundland and
>>Labrador between, the Norse and John Cabot, the suggestion that Portuguese
>>and English voyagers reached the shores of eastern North America before
>>Cabot is broadly consistent with what we know of the times."©1997,
>>Newfoundland and Labrador Heritage Web Site Project
>> European fisher men today routinely make the trip to New Foundland to
fish
>>in small (15 metres ect) boats.
>
>Yep, Portuguese, English, Basques all might have reached North America or
>Newfoundland in the 15th century, I agree. That is nothing to do with
>pre-Columbian immigration to North America.
>
>Doug
>--


You make many statements that are just plain wrong.
Could you cite any references to suport your statements.

The DNA evidence that Europeans were a source of pre-columbus migration to
North America is of course there. There is no debate at all in
Archeological circles
on that fact.
"American Association for the Advancement of Science was told. Such work
reveals four major lineages in native Americans which can be traced to
Siberia and north-east Asia, notably in Baikal and Altai-Sayan.

However, a fifth - more minor - founding lineage, called haplogroup X, can
be traced to Europe, and is found in North American populations, said Dr
Theodore Schurr of the Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research in San
Antonio, Texas. "


Other suporting evidence is also given in the various links.
You have a habit of making false statesment such as
your comments about the celts in france and then hidding
behind one of the local crazies as your defense. And
I did not quote you out of context. I kept a copy of your original post.

The original report on Kennewick man does indicate
that he was proto-european. You are again just plain
wrong.
Where did you get the 4000 year figure for the Inuit arrival in N. America,
out of thin air?
I take it from your various comments that you have never darkened the
entrance to a University science building.

JL






.

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