Re: No Roman Invasion?

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:35:44 GMT, in sci.archaeology,
nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>Apparently on date Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:15:22 +0200, "Michael Kuettner"
><miksbg@xxxxxxxx> said:
>
>>
>>"Doug Weller" <dweller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>>news:cc10d1hvuq80tehmt14vdipj4738ps6qpg@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 10:05:35 -0500, in sci.archaeology, Tom McDonald
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Philip Deitiker wrote:
>>>>> Doug Weller <dweller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> says in
>>>>> news:se5vc1p129eu5vh5qo8ng340rcp6toflj1@xxxxxxx:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>>>There are a lot of people who think religion is a fairly modern
>>>>>>development -- as we conceive of it, religion is something
>>>>>>separate from secular. It seems likely that for most
>>>>>>prehistory, our ancestors didn't make this separation between
>>>>>>the sacred and the profane - religion arose when they did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A belief in an afterlife does not always go along with religion,
>>>>>>by the way. And we shouldn't read our understanding of ochre
>>>>>>into the past.
>>>>>
>>Belief in afterlife = religion. Period.

No, I meant region != belief in afterlife -- usually, but not always, eg
from Wikipedia
Jehovah's Witnesses interpret Ecclesiastes 9:5 to preclude a living
afterlife:

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any
thing, neither have they any more a reward;for the memory of them is
forgotten."

It also says some neopagans think the soul's energy joins with the energy
of all living things, not much of an afterlife there.

However, it seems pretty obvious that you can belief in an afterlife
without being religious. I'm an SF fan, and the theme of downloading
one's brain into software which can then be installed in a clone, or a
robot, or just become free-floating mind, is common. Nothing whatsoever to
do with religion.

>
>I prefer the definition to be dualism.
>
>Seems to me the most workable one, there is a real world which we all recognise
>and live within, can study, manipulate, etc.
>
>And then there's potentially an extra component, e.g. rather than just being
>animals, we may have souls, rather than just dying, we may find there is
>something afterwards, etc. This would mean two worlds, the real one and
>"heaven" where different rules apply.
>
>This defines quite well in the "is there a religion" question as when a culture
>is making up things like animal souls or rocks that think as a way to
>understand or explain the real world, that's not dualism, but just incorrect
>science.
>
>Where the culture has some evidence to imply dualism, that would be a culture
>with religion.
>
>It seems to me also, that when you bury someone with tools, weapons, food, etc,
>this implies a belief in a possible afterlife because you are giving the
>impression the buried person may need these things. Within the context of this
>question, it doesn't imply dualism or religion, merely a lack of knowledge of
>what may come next and willingness to provide grave goods "just in case".
>
>I'm under the impression that grave goods go right back in time to, for
>instance, a neanderthal buried with them. This would, in your definition, imply
>that whoever buried this neanderthal had religion, which I think is too far to
>go on that evidence. To me, it simply implies the burial group were able to
>identify with the dead man and wanted to treat him (or her) with respect.
>
True. It's hard, maybe impossible, not to project our way of looking at
the world onto the past.
Doug
--
Doug Weller -- exorcise the demon to reply
Doug & Helen's Dogs http://www.dougandhelen.com
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk


.

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