Re: Teouma skeletons....

qiwi wrote:
>
> re: the URL you posted. I've only had time to read the intro....seems
> interesting but all these studies have one glaring defect. They make
> the unproved assumption that the 'Lapita' people and the Polynesians
> are one and the same.... therefore all their results are hopelessly
> skewed. Apart from that the report seems pretty spot on, that is, if we > replace the word 'Polynesian' with 'Lapita'

But Qiwi, these people are doing genetics! When they say "Polynesians",
they mean real, live Polynesians-as-we-know-them whose genes they are
studying. If you simply replace that term with "Lapita" (especially your
version of Lapita as "early Melanesian potters who mysteriously
disappeared when the Polynesians arrived from Ecuador"), you get
nonsense.

e.g. It points out :
> "Recent genetic studies have supported the 'slow boat' and 'entangled
> bank' models according to which the Polynesian [Lapita]migration can be
> seen as an expansion from Melanesia without any major direct genetic
> thread back to its initiation in Taiwan.".....

Now here I have to agree that the word "Polynesian" is being carelessly
used, as it often is when geneticists and their interpreters talk about
prehistory. I'd even agree that "Lapita" is better here, though I
wouldn't understand it the way you do. ;-)


> Common sense already told us that.... what sort of 'express train'
> spends 500 years in one station??? (The Bismarck archipelago, New
> Caledonia).

Um, 500 years is still not that long in archaeological terms. Anyhow,
you know that I think the whole "express train" catch-phrase has led to
nothing but confusion.
But I'm curious as to how "common sense" tells you that there is "no
major direct genetic thread back to its initiation in Taiwan"?

> It also points out "...most mtDNA lineages in Taiwanese aboriginal
> populations are grouped separately from those found in China and the
> Taiwan general (Han) population...". I guess that was reasonably
> obvious but if as is claimed by Geoff Chambers and his colleagues the
> ancestors of the 'Polynesians' [Lapita people] originated in mainland
> China and came into oceania via Tawian shouldn't there be a clear
> genetic link??

As I understand Trejaut et al, that's what they're finding.

> As far as me using "the papers and TV to portray the scientists as
> imbeciles and lunatics"...give us a break Ross....
> What portrays them as imbeciles is their own words, quoted verbatim
> in these reports. Or do you think that on the television item Geoff
> Chambers words have been deleted and somebody has overdubbed the
> imbecilic comments in their place.

The few words from Buckley and Chambers that you quoted in your posts
did not seem imbecilic to me. You scoffed and spluttered at them because
you don't like the conclusions they are drawing from their evidence. But
it is just the point at which journalists are most confused and
confusing.
The business about the Taiwan Aborigines looking like Maori is a hobby
horse of some Wellington journalist. I agree, it's not how we do
science, but are you suggesting it can't possibly be true?

Ross Clark
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Genetic evidence.....
    ... some HVR I sequences in the American SW could ... in similar tests carried out on 10 Lapita skeletons from ... results imply that Lapita culture was carried from Melanesia." ... Polynesians, then using that same criterion, we must also exclude any ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Genetic evidence.....
    ... some HVR I sequences in the American SW could ... in similar tests carried out on 10 Lapita skeletons from ... results imply that Lapita culture was carried from Melanesia." ... Polynesians, then using that same criterion, we must also exclude any ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Genetic evidence.....
    ... some HVR I sequences in the American SW could ... in similar tests carried out on 10 Lapita skeletons from ... results imply that Lapita culture was carried from Melanesia." ... Polynesians, then using that same criterion, we must also exclude any ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Teouma skeletons....
    ... the unproved assumption that the 'Lapita' people and the Polynesians ... As far as me using "the papers and TV to portray the scientists as ... What portrays them as imbeciles is their own words, ... Chambers words have been deleted and somebody has overdubbed the ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Lapita & continuity in the archaeological record.....
    ... >> You asked me what evidence connects Lapita with the Polynesians. ... Shall we start with the potsherds in the Marquesas? ...
    (sci.archaeology)
Loading