Re: VM Ink

Seppo Renfors wrote: 

Tom McDonald wrote:

Seppo Renfors wrote:

<snip>

Animal hides isn't the usual source for animal gelatine as
used in glues - bones and hooves are.


       Could be; I'm not a chemist. However, I suspect that you, as a
woodworker, are acquainted with hide glue. This is, in fact, made
from animal hides. I made some myself, from some of the scrapings
of the inside of a deer hide that I prepared and tanned myself.



Well this sort of explain some of your personality- you go hunting
animals you don't NEED for food. Then the attraction must be the
KILLING of the innocent animal! I see......

Well, this well and truly puts the lie to your boast of treating people as they treat you. I replied to you on-topic. I even appealed to the fact that you, a furniture maker, may have had experience with hide glue. And yet your first instinct is to attack me. Huh.

FWIW, I got the hide at a wilderness skills training school. The hides had been donated by hunters, hunters who in many cases DID need the animals for food. People where I live hunt deer for sport, yes; but nearly 100% of the time also use the meat. Many hunters who don't need the meat themselves donate their deer to food programs for poor people.

Most also take their hides in to places that process the hides and made things like gloves with them. There is very, very little waste of the kills; and most hunters I know respect the animals they hunt and try to get clean first-shot kills to minimize the animal's suffering.

But you, knowing nothing of any of this, decide that I must be a hunter myself. And further, that hunting is somehow a bad thing. You must be a Vegan then, mustn't you, Seppo? You would never stoop so low as to be party to the killing (still less the KILLING) of an innocent animal. Would you?

So you only eat animals that had been judged guilty and executed according to the law? That must be it!

Seppo is in favor of the execution of animals for the purpose of eating them himself!

...that was an interesting experiment. Thinking and writing like Seppo, in order to turn an entirely benign comment into a vicious, low and ultimately stupid attack on someone. I am very, very glad that I don't have to live in that mindset full-time.

It was an interesting process, and I wound up with a small amount
of glue that I experimented with with fair to good results.



Listen, you can use SPIT for glue - it all depends on what you intend
to use it for. You are aware that raw potato can be used for glue -
and you may even have used it yourself. Another good long lasting glue
(that was used in fair quantities) is made from CHEESE!


	All true. All beside the point, but true.

However - the claim is "forgery" remember.

I wasn't addressing that larger point. I was addressing a smaller one; your observation:

"Animal hides isn't the usual source for animal gelatine as
used in glues - bones and hooves are."

I don't know your intention in writing this. I could speculate; but I've already spent too much time today inside your head, and that's just not a good place to be.

But the fact is that glue is made from animal hides, as well as from hooves, etc. It is dead common, and anyone can prove that to themselves the next time they are in a well-stocked department store's hardware department, or a builder's supply store. If the issue is the gripping power of animal hide glue, intentionally or unintentionally made, then the fact is that glue can come from that source, and can be extremely strong.

The so called "evidence" is
being manufactured to suit that claim - it then requires a
manufactured glue from the 1920's for the purpose of "proving" the VM
is a "forgery". That requires it to be from the sources I mentioned -
the sources used in those days. Which incidentally doesn't do Dave's
conspiracy theory any good at all.

Hide has been used for glue for a very long time--on the order of at least tens of thousands of years. It has been used in the West in carpentry and joinery, probably for nearly as long as any glues were used in those arts. You assert (without any supporting evidence) that the glue must have been a manufactured glue, which may or may not be true. But then you further assert that any such glue could only be from hooves or bones. This is patently false.

Support your assertions or abandon them, Seppo. If the rest of your argumentation is as poorly thought out (or as driven by ideology or malice), then your arguments must of necessity be worthless. If this was a simple lapse, then you can correct it and move on.

	
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