Re: Neolithic/Mesolithic boundary


"Philip Deitiker" <Donevenask@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:inJcf.73263$zb5.64380@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> In sci.archaeology message news:dkurr0$6eq$1@xxxxxxxxx by "Uwe
> Müller" <uwemueller@xxxxxxxxxx> . . . :
>
> >
> > "Peter AIaca" <P.Alaca@xxxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:43726131$0$80583$dbd4d001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Philip Deitiker wrote:
> >> > "Peter AIaca" . . . :
> >>
> >> >> Philip Deitiker wrote:
> >> >>> Philip Deitiker created a message
> >> >>>> "Peter . . . :
> >>
> >> snip >
> >
> >> >> The marge is caused by the first farmers
> >> >> of the Linear Pottery Cultue (LBK).
> >>
> >> > IOW the transtions from the Paleolithic to Bronze age
> >> > occurred quickly in NW europe.
> >>
> >> Is a Neolithic period of 2350 c14y short?
> >
> > There seems to be a confusion on terminology here. The
> > Palaeolithic is usually thought to end with the ice age, that
> > woud be something like 12000 BCE.
>
> That turns out to be a problem also, because although the ice age is
> over and ice is on the decline after 14,600 years ago, in some areas,
> for example scandinavia, there still is a significant amount of ice
> at 12,000 years ago, and peoples who might have been isolated by ice
> or living as part of glacial perimeter cultures adapted may have
> still existed out to 10,000 years or so.

Of course, and it would have taken generations to change from nomadic to
sedentary or at least semi-sedentary. On the other hand, even when much of
the land was still tundra, some sites may have offered the pick of migrating
animals and floodplains abundant with grain. There you would get an early
mesolithicization.

>
> > The Mesolithic, where it it is found
>
> Where it is recognized.

Microliths.

>
> >, would last to roughly the
> > middle of the 7th millenium BCE, maybe a millenium or two longer
> > the further north you get (neolithization being established
> > there in what further south would be called middle neolithic).
> > In the middle Neolithic the search for minerals became an
> > important part of the economy. In the time that used to be
> > called late neolithic, cultures using metals to some extent are
> > seen spreading (Corded ware, . Sometime in the 3rd millenium BCE
> > the full blown bronze age develops, with arsenic bronzes giving
> > way to tin in the late 3rd m. BCE.
> >
> > So the transition from Palaeolithic to Bronze age took roughly
> > 9.000 years, the gap between the Mesolithic and Bronze age still
> > spanning something like 4.000 years.
> >
> > It all depends on definitions though, with pre-neolithic
> > ceramics and pre-bronze age metalworking (cold hammering of
> > copper or gold) being acknowledged now to be rather early.
>
> So what happens if one find earthenware and grain storage 16 to 20
> kya, say, in central asia. What does this do the paleolithic,
> evidence of light agriculture?

There are small earthenware statues from the palaeolithic. And grain vs.
grass is a matter of definition. Plant matters have certainly been
collected, but what chance is there to recover them after all that time?

>
> > From the analysis of habitation sites it became apparent, that
> > the Neolithic in the northern parts of NW Europe existed side by
> > side with Mesolithic groups (those staying in their acustomed
> > settlement areas while the Neolithics moved into -up to that
> > time- marginally lands). And much the same happened with the
> > early middle neolithic sites, which were situated away from the
> > best arable land in the vicinity of sources for salt and/or
> > copper.
> >
> > So the transitions took time, it took from a couple of hundred
> > years up to a millenium or two, before new technologies became
> > adapted. The lenght of the period varied according to the
> > availability of raw materials and /or food sources.
>
> Thanks.
> So what you seem to be saying is that between the time of
> ice declines over the channel regions and the time water levels were
> too high for occupation, the region would have generally been in the
> mesolithic, (me adding- with some retained paleolithic holdouts) and
> the neolithic really too far away to have an impact.
> [So much for Atlantis, snort] But I guess neolithic cultures could
> have been occasional influencing the region.
>
> But my interest is in the pottery and metal working.
>
> 1st question, why is it believed that intense metal working
> technology migrated into NW europe and not from NW europe?

Because of the lack of suitable raw materials. Helgoland may be the only
place where you could get metallic copper from. In the ore mountains you get
a little metallic copper and ores, that can be worked.

Further east you get ores which are more easily smelted, so they were
processed first. And with the developing know-how, they were able to smelt
nw european ores.


>
> 2nd question, the oldest pottery sites west of the himalyan range
> are putative in the middle eastern holo-region, is there any evidence
> at all for older cultures to the NE part of the western eurasian
> regions,

It is a region that has not been intensly build-over, ploughed by hand or
researched.

> secondarily, with the reorganization of the soviet union
> into republics, what type of archaeology is being done in the smaller
> republics?

AFAIK they are all struggling to keep up what services they have, and there
is some help from richer countries. What chance would they have of stopping
a multi-million dollar building projekt for excavations?

have fun

Uwe Mueller


.

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