Re: 'Vikings' in Mexican Mythology? Criticised by Own [Nahuatl] Scholars.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:26:47 -0800, Tom McDonald
<tmcdonald2672@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Eric Stevens wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:32:25 GMT, "Guess Where?"
>> <way_over_there@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.texancultures.utsa.edu/publications/exploration/chapte
>>>reight.htm
>>>
>>>"Juan de Torquemada does record a Native American story of such
>>>a landing-very close to Pánuco. He says that Mexican Indians met
>>>people from northern regions-white, fair-haired, bearded, finely
>>>built-who arrived wearing clothes of dark sacking, open in
>>>front, without cowls, cut out round at the neck, with short,
>>>wide sleeves.
>>>"
>>
>>
>> I have an english translation of 'Westward before Columbus' by Kare
>> Prytz. On page 164 he wrote:
>>
>> Begin quote
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
>> Fortune tellers and astrologers reminded people that a white man who
>> had once visited Mexico left during a <<reed year>>. And they knew, or
>> believed, that he would also return during a <<reed year>>. The year
>> 1519, when Cortéz began his conquest, was also a <<reed year>>. The
>> foreigner who had once visited the Indians was not an ordinary man,
>> but an invincible god! He was the mighty god Quetzalcoatl. The ruler,
>> Montezuma, and his viceroys became very frightened.
>>
>> The following is a summary based on Grimberg's Menneskenes liv og
>> historie [<<The Life and History of Man>>] with Indians about the
>> legend of this white man.
>>
>> In legends he was described as a strong man with light skin, blue
>> eyes, and a big beard. This last part is particularly startling,
>> because the Indians themselves have insignificant growth of beard. He
>> also wore a big and special hat. Furthermore this white man was said
>> to have lived among the Aztecs for a while and had taught them new
>> ways of farming and building, as well as how to work with metals. He
>> had also told them that there was only one god, the god of compassion
>> and love, and he had ordered the Indians to stop all human sacrifices.
>> He left in a long boat, that looked like a snake, and with a stem
>> formed as a falcon's head. It was built <<like the feathers of a
>> bird>>, with boards overlapping. It seems to be an accurate
>> description of the characteristic clinker-built Norse long ship. Even
>> the name is reminiscent?the most famous of all Norwegian long ships
>> was called <<Ormen Lange>> [The Long Snake] and was owned by Olav
>> Trygvasson.
>>
>> When he left the land headed east, he said he would be back. And that
>> he, or his god, would be their master. The words are reminiscent of
>> those often heard during the time when Scandinavia was christened,
>> three?four hundred years earlier.
>>
>> The first Aztec king ascended the throne around 1370, about the time
>> metal work first began to appear in Mexico.3 It is striking that the
>> stranger also taught them a new way to cultivate crops. In the 1300s
>> the Aztecs began using <<floating fields>> that multiplied their
>> yields in the tropical climate.
>>
>> Researchers believe that the stranger visited several lands in Central
>> America.4 This new method of cultivation?which is probably none other
>> than the floating islands?was in use in other central American
>> countries before it reached Mexico. The stranger may have learned it
>> there before he encountered the Aztecs.
>>
>> The <<reed year>> when this happened, was 1363. It could not have been
>> the next <<reed year>>, 1467, because Montezuma said that several
>> generations had passed since the visit took place.
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> End quote
>
> Doug posted a wonderful link. It's worth reading when discussing
>any stories related from one culture to another; and then
>re-told, often centuries later, by people who may not even be
>fully aware even of the 'familiar' culture of, say, the Spanish
>fellow who wrote it down.
>
> What do you make of the story Prytz relates? It sounds like a
>game of 'telephone' to me.
>
><snip>

Most of it can be classified as the usual (possibly) muddled mythology
but the reference to the "new way to cultivate crops" with the
implication that this was the use of "floating islands" See
http://www.geocities.com/wasicugohome/chinampa.html

Two questions occur to me. First, is the the date of the adoption of
'chinampa' agriculture sharply defined and, if so, what was it? Are
there any norse sources which independently confirm this story?



Eric Stevens

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