Re: Origin of the Etruscan people?

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:49:16 +0100, Italo <olati3@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


>> It is not just evidence of human presence. After all, evidence of
>> human absence is negative evidence, and that, in principle, could be
>> anything. But in the case of the Mediterranean there is a bunch of
>> evidence that leads to the conclusion that long-distance maritime
>> activity was absent before 7000 BCE (note: not 7000 bp).
>
>There is one human bonefragment that is now radiocarbon
>dated to the mid 8th mill. bc (Corbeddu Cave).

Interesting, that would still jive with the Cyprus date below.

>> Evidence for
>> deep-sea tuna fishing is from that time, and Cyprus was settled around
>> the same time.
>
>Cyprus was settled earlier, about 10000 BC.

The info I have is Science 304, 259, 2004 which gives a known earliest
date for humans on Cyprus at 8300 BCE. The settlers brought a couple
animal species with them, such as fox, cat, and domesticated animals.

Hey, great, here I found something in my notes:
---
Due to a recent study it has been thought that the genetic influence
of the people living in the Fertile Crescent on the genetic patterns
of Europeans has not been overly strong. Now Lounès Chikhi, University
College London, has looked at the same data with the eye of a
statistician. It was found that the genetic influence of the first
agriculturists is indeed quite strong. For example, Greeks have to
85-100% the same genetic pattern as people from northern Mesopotamia;
among the French it is still 15-30%, the European average is 50%. The
only population that does not fit this patterns are the Sardinians.
They are derived to almost 100% from the hunters & gatherers who
colonized Sardinia ca.7000 BCE.
New Scientist 10.8.2002, their source: Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences (PNAS).
---
Also, it is known that the male gene of the first agriculturists
spread very fast along the Mediterranean coast, suggesting travel by
boat around 5000 BCE, whereas the female is indigenous. (For this I do
not have the ref, sorry).


>> I am not informed if such animals existed
>> in Sardinia, but they did exist in Sicily. And no matter how deep you
>> let MSL fall, Sardinia and Corsica were connected during LGM, but they
>> were still a far-offshore island.
>
>One estimate has 20 to 40 km distance (at 18000 bp).

I think Philip's (PRD) thesis that there were maritime migrations in
very early times, even during the Weichsel, is very intriguing. I
accept that Australia was reached 60kbp, and the Andamans too,
probably shortly before Australia; and it has often been insinuated
that the emigration from Africa to the east did not go through the
modern Gaza-Suez gap, but from Eritrea directly to Aden. We have
discussed the trans-Pacific issue elsewhere.

I have less difficulties to accept his proposition of maritime nomads
in the western Pacific because there is a distinct possibility - given
the undeniable evidence for pre-LGM maritime activity - that there was
a tradition of travelling the open oceans.

In the Mediterranean there was no such thing, AFAIK (unless someone
presents me with evidence, and more than PRD's genetic
interpretations). In order to reach the offshore islands they had to
invent boats for themselves, ie. independent of any knowledge from the
Indian Ocean, or else those 30km to Corsica are unsurmountable. If you
have ever tried to keep a canoe on course on a lake on a windy day you
will know what it means to do that with a dugout or a raft on the
Mediterranean sea.

Even if we consider that traces of HSS near-shore cultures at LGM
(prd's mediterranean HSS nomads that he thinks coexisted with HSN
before Cro's came from France) cannot have been preserved as the
coasts are now submerged, I have a hard time to believe in the
possibility. I think with this he is pretty far out. (Proof could be
given by sonar mapping of old coasts for shell mounds.) I cannot see
why such HSS groups would abstain from going inland. Later, around
35-33kbp, the Ebro has been a boundary between HSN and HSS for ca.2000
years - which simply demonstrates that such subtle differences can now
be documented. (The Ebro is a very strong species boundary up to this
day.)

Also, I cannot accept PRD's thesis that the population density in
Sardinia at LGM was so low that the physical evidence has not been
found yet. At LGM, appx. 5000 people lived in what is now southern
Germany, they would fit into a village today, spread out over the
entire region between Rhine and Bavarian Forest, Alps and Main; but
surely their traces have been found. After all, today the search for
ancient traces during road & rail construction etc. is very
systematic.

fkoe



.

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