Re: Celtic Origins

"Inger E.Johansson" <inger e.johansson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:K%XDf.43617$d5.199529@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> "Peter Alaca" <P.Alaca@xxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
> news:43dfeee6$1$30888$dbd43001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Inger E.Johansson wrote:  SXPDf.154972$dP1.513335@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>>
>> > "Peter Alaca" <P.Alaca@xxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
>> > news:43dfca47$0$57978$dbd4f001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Inger E.Johansson wrote:  jgPDf.154965$dP1.513280@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
>> >>> "Eric Stevens" skrev...
>> >>>>  "JMB"  wrote:
>> >>>>> "Inger E.Johansson"  wrote
>> >>>>>> "JMB" skrev
>> >>
>> >>>>> --SNIP--
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> That's what is known as mythology.  Fir Bolg has never been
>> >>>>>>> interpreted as
>> >>>>>>> "Fat Men" before as far as I'm aware.  It is usually interpreted
>> >>>>>>> as "Men of bags", or "Men of Spears", or sometimes "Men of
>> >>>>>>> Bolg", where "Bolg" is thought to have been a name of a god.
>> >>>>>>> The whole of the Tuatha De Danann were pretty much gods.  Danu
>> >>>>>>> was the name of the main goddess.  The invasions were designed
>> >>>>>>> to make us biblical.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Here you have one problem. The Tuatha De Danann, might very well
>> >>>>>> have been a
>> >>>>>> real historic group. The time when they are mentioned in the
>> >>>>>> Irish tales correspond well with the present knowledge of direct
>> >>>>>> contacts between Tanum's parish in todays Bohuslän Sweden and
>> >>>>>> Ireland/Scotland during Bronze
>> >>>>>> Age according to what L.Bengtsson Rock Carving Museum Vitlycke,
>> >>>>>> Tanum, told
>> >>>>>> Prof Lee Pennington during an interview the other year. I was
>> >>>>>> present during
>> >>>>>> the interview and managed to get a short discussion with LB after
>> >>>>>> the interview. What he said correspond very well with the Irish
>> >>>>>> tales.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Don't be daft Inger.  We all know you have a superiority complex
>> >>>>> about Swedes, but they were not, and are not, gods.  The Tuatha De
>> >>>>> Danann were gods.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ridiculous!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There is no such thing as 'gods' except in myths.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If the Tuatha De Danaan existed at all they were real people. I too
>> >>>> have seen them linked with the Baltic region and possibly as far
>> >>>> south as the Black Sea. The problem is that they date from a period
>> >>>> when there was little, if any, writing to establish hard facts.
>> >>>> What little we know has come down by word of mouth to the scribes
>> >>>> of later eras.
>> >>>
>> >>> What we know is that it's possible to verify their existence as
>> >>> non-Gods and date the period when they visited Tanum's area for a
>> >>> long period. The dated wagon's on the Rock Carving correspond in
>> >>> time with the Irish tales' date as well as with the type of sails
>> >>> shown on the Rock Carvings of boats's dating correspond with the
>> >>> Phenician's sails and boat models. But that's not all. There were
>> >>> some years ago an excavation short north of Tanumshede when a new
>> >>> part of E6 were to be built. Those who look closer at for example
>> >>> the Bronze sword and other artifacts found on the large Bronze Age
>> >>> farm close to Prestesäm less than 300 meters from the origin
>> >>> Arendal in Scandinavia(Tanum's parish) which btw Norwegian Kings
>> >>> owned apart from a short period before King Magnus Eriksson's son
>> >>> Hakon inherited it when the land was owned by a monestry on the
>> >>> other side of Sannäsfjorden one can see a continued leader's farm
>> >>> from Bronze age up to Late Medieval Age when contacts between
>> >>> Ireland/Scotland and Tanum's area was more 'on' than 'off'.
>> >>>
>> >>> I guess that if more looked closer at the Irish tales and compared
>> >>> them with known archaeologic findings, for example the dates given
>> >>> for when wagon first were used in Ireland compared with artifacts,
>> >>> more trust would be given to the tales than the majority of scholars
>> >>> do today.
>> >>
>> >> Big problem: the Tuatha De Danann is not dated.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> p.a.
>> >
>> > big PROBLEM  is that Tuatha De Danann's return IS dated if you only
>> > read at least good transcribed Gaelic texts when your translated
>> > versions don't give dates.
>>
>> Why is /that/ a problem?
>>
>> --
>> p.a.
>
> I don't have a personal problem with it because I am almost 100% sure that
> it's highly unlikely that the group of people origined from anywhere in
> Scandinavia,
> but
> I know of at least three respected scholars of history/archaeology who in
> private discussions tries to put forward theories re. Celts using
> archaeology but disregarding all that doesn't suit those theories. Among
> the
> written documentations I have heard put forward is the Tuatha De Danann
> tale.
>
> I said before and I said it again while it's possible that Denmark,
> Danmark
> for us Scandinavians, might have had it's name from groups belonging to
> Tuatha De Danann, the group definitely didn't origin anywhere in
> Scandinavia. Neither written Ancient or Early Medieval sources give any
> information as far as I know that could be said to be valid in that type
> of
> argumentation.
> On the other hand it does seem more than likely that it was from round the
> North Sea, including Skagerack and Kattegatt that same, to south the
> English
> Channel, where a megalith culture came to be spread during late Stone Age
> early Bronze Age, and it's to my knowledge never proven where it started.
>
> Inger E


My Ingerish is poor.  Does the above translate to "Mere mortals in the Bogs
of Eire deified in hallowed Sviddish turf" or
is it "Gods from somewhere near modern Sweden (but not 'in' there) descend
to the mortal realm to drag the Irish bog dwellers out of the stone age."?

Dave



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Celtic Origins
    ... >>> Inger E.Johansson wrote: jgPDf.154965$dP1.513280@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... If the Tuatha De Danaan existed at all they were real people. ... >>>> the Bronze sword and other artifacts found on the large Bronze Age ... >>>> I guess that if more looked closer at the Irish tales and compared ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Celtic Origins
    ... > Inger E.Johansson wrote: jgPDf.154965$dP1.513280@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... >>> If the Tuatha De Danaan existed at all they were real people. ... >> with the Irish tales' date as well as with the type of sails shown on ... >> see a continued leader's farm from Bronze age up to Late Medieval Age ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Celtic Origins
    ... The Tuatha De Danann, might very well have ... What he said correspond very well with the Irish tales. ... sword and other artifacts found on the large Bronze Age farm close to ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Celtic Origins
    ... The whole of the Tuatha De Danann were pretty much gods. ... Irish tales correspond well with the present knowledge of direct ... the Bronze sword and other artifacts found on the large Bronze Age ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Celtic Origins
    ... Inger is implying the Tuatha legend originated in proto-Sweden. ... around the Baltics that Eric mentioned are not to the north of Ireland, ...
    (sci.archaeology)
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