Re: The Early Germans


"Uwe Müller" <uwemueller@xxxxxxxxxx> skrev i meddelandet
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"Michael Kuettner" <miksbg@xxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
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"Hayabusa" <peregrine@xxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:59:21 GMT, "Alan Crozier"
<name1.name2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Thanks for that link, Peter.

Interesting that Todd on page 20 conveys an opinion on the
origin of the Gundestrup cauldron:
"a work of an eastern Celtic master based on the lower Danube in
the later secondor earlier first century BC".

AFAIK this is the standard interpretation, I have heard it a couple
times before.
Yes, it is. But, as Uwe has pointed out, there are arguments against
that interpretation.
Me ? I believe in the Danube - theory.

After all, somehow these elephants must have ended up on
the cauldron, and they weren't rampaging through northern Jutland at
200BCE. - Neither, of course, through Dacia. But it is far easier to
imagine that a Dacian silver smith knew about them than a Germanic
artisan at the end of the world.

Germanic tribes don't come into the play here.
Just as a reminder so as to not muddy the waters further.
It's Thracian against Celt.

I would not be so sure about that. Put the Gundestrup piece in a 2nd c. AD
context (as suggested by the Planetary Vases) and look for silver
cauldrons.

And the contemporary documents doesn't name Thracians as the old group
Thracians but as Alemanic alternatively Gothic from 166 AD. Have name on
some of them due to their queer behavior. If you look at Orosius and Zosimus
mentioning of the fightings you will find that they also say that there were
many groups that at that time lived in earlier Scythic land who was called
Scyths but weren't of the Ancient Scyths. Both historians happened :-) to
manage to write about this in their 7th chapther.

Inger E


Somehow it would be fascinating to find out just how much people knew
about each other in those times. For example, did the news of
Alexanders conquest of the Persian empire spread to northern Europe? -

Almost certainly not.
No Greeks north of Marsillia; gossip in harbour taverns ? Yes.
But as it didn't affext them and they didn't even know where persia was

The adoption of the cline is supposed to have spread in 60 to 80 years
first
to the Greeks and then to the Celts (remember the Hochdorf burial). There
should have been intimate and reliable contacts between Celts and Greeks
in
Late Hallstatt times. And those ties were close enough to also have
punic/phoenecian furniture distributed north of the Alps.
...

I would assume that they did; big A's war affected the eastern Med,
and was probably taverne talk subject from Syracuse to the Atlantic.

Not in the Iron age. The tradenets seem to have broken down at the end
of
the
copper and bronze age.

The tradenet is what those early iron age residences (princely sites) are
all about. And the change in domination of the western Med, after the
naval
battles with Etruscans and Phoenecians, shows up fast enough as a
difference
in the origin of imported goods in those early Latène burials. They have
direct Greek imports while the late Hallstatt ones show Etruscan
intermediaries. Would all of this have been forgotten to be re-invented in
Phillips time?


snip >

have fun

Uwe Mueller




.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Early Germans
    ... origin of the Gundestrup cauldron: ... "a work of an eastern Celtic master based on the lower Danube ... the cauldron, and they weren't rampaging through northern ... No Greeks north of Marsillia; ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Early Germans
    ... origin of the Gundestrup cauldron: ... the cauldron, and they weren't rampaging through northern Jutland at ... No Greeks north of Marsillia; ... to the Greeks and then to the Celts. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Early Germans
    ... origin of the Gundestrup cauldron: ... the cauldron, and they weren't rampaging through northern Jutland at ... The tradenets continued _at a lesser degree_. ... When the Greeks and Etruscans battled them, ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Celtic Origins
    ... figures on the cauldron, ... Other scholars place the Gundestrup Cauldron in a Celtic ... Hachmann pointed to strong similarities between the deities on the ... So, if Hachmann, and the celtic-origin fraction is to be believed, the ...
    (sci.archaeology)
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