Re: Persepolis: 6 vs 60 years to build?


"David Johnson" <trolleyfan_spamfree@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Xns97D653D412518trolleyfanearthlinkn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Lars Wilson" <misha_linword@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:wNydnd-FBYveduLZnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:


"deowll" <deowll@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jitfg.55157$QU3.12746@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To Lars:

Okay genius. How long does it take to build a cathedral? Five or six
years or maybe longer? Some buildings also get rather extensively
modified. In a way no truly major building is ever finished. Somebody
is always doing something to it.


Hi Deowil.

A cathetral is not a house.

Neither is Persopolis...

David


Hello David.

Darius started his castle at Persepolis first. He finished it in just two
years. Perspolis
is only about 11 buildings and you can see them discussed at the Orienteal
Museum
webpage which has a great layout on it.

One building only is in question, the one started by Darius and Xerxes and
finished
by Artaxerxes. Darius had already died as they found a cylinder speaking of
his
great works in the foundation of the building. Darius was not an old man
as
both his father and grandfather were still alive when he died and his father
was
known to visit his tomb at Naqshi-Rustum. But all that is background.

Whether or not the Throne Hall took 6 years or 60 years should be answerable
by an archaeologist, should it not? Archaeologists are smart. They seem to
be able
to tell when buildings get started, if there was an interruption, how long
they took to
build, all that. It would just be nice to have an archaologist weigh in
on the question
since we know Xerxes and Artaxerxes were actually the same king. Right now
the
story is out that Persepolis took 57-60 years to build when actually when
the chronology
is corrected it should reflect that the main buildings were completed in
just a few years.
So how come they didn't notice that before now?

Here's the site if you want to look at this magnificent "city" which is only
a royal compound
really, not a city.

http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/MUS/PA/IRAN/PAAI/PAAI.html


But I will give in a little. The obvious contraction over the time span had
been debated
among archaeologists before and the flexibility in the opinions varied
around two the
two kings were together seen in the city. Some understood them to be Darius
and Xerxes,
others Xerxes and Artaxerxes and still others even Artaxerxes and Darius I.
That was because
it was clear that Darius died, obviously, shortly after the palace was
finished. But that debate
is not optional now since one archaeologist discovered the name of the kings
written in the hem
of their garment which identified them specifically as Darius and Xerxes.
Business tablets found
confirm it began to be built in "year four" of an unnamed king (obvously
Darius I), but since he
allegedly ruled for 36 years, leaving most of the "city" unfinished, it
seems the buildings were
underconstruction for all that time. Were they? Or instead, did Darius
begin the city in his
fourth year, finish his palace in year six and ended up getting murdered at
Marathon before the
other buildings were completed, those buildings being completed by the 7th
year of "Artaxerxes"
per other records, which if Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king, since
they shared a 4-year
co-rulership and Xerxes adopted the throne name Artaxerxes at Darius' death,
would mean the
see could have been completed in under 5-6 years, rather than over a period
of 60 years. The
facade of the Throne Hall by Artaxerxes over a foundation started by Darius
and Xerxes thus
presents the possibility of a very, very, verrrry long contruction project
for this one building, or
simply a name change for the surviving co-ruler son and a building completed
in the normal time
in line with construction then.

An archaeologist should be able to tell us if there is evidence the building
was begun during the
reign of Darius and Xerxes but completed 50-60 years later during the reign
Artaxerxes as they
claim now. Or, maybe there is archaeological evidence that shows the
building only took about
five years to complete? So let's let the archaeologists weigh in on it!

By the way, the Oriental museum also publishes all the Persian inscriptions
at Persepolis and show
all the buildings and the bas-reliefs that show the kings who built the
"city" and their staff. Of important
note is that the Jewish eunuch cupbearer, Nehemiah, who can be seen at
Persepolis with Artaxerxes,
very honored and sometimes alone with Artaxerxes, is also seen with Darius
and Xerxes when they
were co-rulers.

So there is another fun comparison awaiting us at Persepolis. Comparison of
the inscriptions against
the bas-reliefs along with the architecture. Right now, they are not
matching up very well.

What do you think?

L.W.

Here is what is said at the Oriental Museum about the Throne Hall:

"Next to the Apadana, the second largest building of the Persepolis Terrace
is the Throne Hall (also called the "Hundred-Column Hall"), which was
started by Xerxes and completed by his son Artaxerxes I (end of the fifth
century B.C.). Its eight stone doorways are decorated on the south and north
with reliefs of throne scenes and on the east and west with scenes depicting
the king in combat with monsters. In addition, the northern portico of the
building is flanked by two colossal stone bulls. In the beginning of Xerxes'
reign the Throne Hall was used mainly for receptions for representatives of
all the subject nations of the empire. Later, when the Treasury proved to be
too small, the Throne Hall also served as a storehouse and, above all, as a
place to display more adequately objects, both tribute and booty, from the
royal treasury. Concerning this, Schmidt wrote of the striking parallel in a
modern example of a combined throne hall and palace museum where the Shah of
Iran stores and exhibits the royal treasures in rooms and galleries
adjoining his throne hall in the Gulistan Palace at Teheran."


http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/MUS/PA/IRAN/PAAI/IMAGES/PER/TH/2F6_72dpi.html

Above you can see Artaxerxes from the throne hall with his favorite
cupbearer, Nehemiah. He holds a cuptowel as his badge of office and is
dressed in neither Mede or Persian garb. His beard is covered confirming he
is a eunuch. The cupbearer was the highest court position in Persia
equivalent to the Prime Minister. But, of course, this same person is with
"Xerxes" and "Darius" who are together as co-rulers allegedly many years and
two kingships prior. Why does Darius and Xerxes have the same Jewish
cupbearer as "Artaxerxes"? Compare the same cupbearer with Darius Xerxes
below:

http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/MUS/PA/IRAN/PAAI/IMAGES/PER/TRE/3B10_72dpi.html

In the above scene notice the chief cupbearer standing immediately behind
Xerxes. In this scene you can see the Persians with their fluted caps and
the Medes with rounded ones, but this "prime minister" of the land is
neither Persian nor Mede but has a hooded cap similar to that seen worn by
king Jehu in a bas-relief of Shalmaneser III. Is this the same
non-Persian/no-Mede prime minister under Darius/Xerxes as under Artaxerxes?
If it is the same person then Nehemiah was prime minister of Persia during
the co-rulership of Darius and Xerxes in the fourth year of Darius when the
"city" began to be built.

Obviously, this is an opportunity to compare Xerxes with Artaxerxes as well
since we are claiming they were actually the same king. This is the only
bas-relief where the face of Xerxes and Artaxerxes was not chiseled off, the
faces are missing on every other bas-relief at Persepolis.

Interesting. Let me know what you think about the comparison. Thanks!

L.W.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Nehemiah found at Persepolis!!!
    ... that Artaxerxes had a Jewish cupbearer and that Nehemiah was ... Artaxerxes was buried between Darius I and Darius II ... Xerxes never ruled or was Artaxerxes they created a fourth tomb for Xerxes. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Nehemiah found at Persepolis!!!
    ... > Is Persepolis avoided by archaeologists because it creates too many ... > confirms that "Xerxes" succeeded Darius. ... > Nothus, Artaxerxes II Mnomon, Artaxerxes III was Nothus, Darius III was ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • PERSEPOLIS THRONE HALL: Built in 6 or 60 years?
    ... The Throne Hall, built in in 6 or 60 years? ... Because Artaxerxes and Xerxes ... Darius II, proving he followed Darius I, followed by Darius II. ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • PERSEPOLIS THRONE HALL: Built in 6 or 60 years?
    ... The Throne Hall, built in in 6 or 60 years? ... Because Artaxerxes and Xerxes ... Darius II, proving he followed Darius I, followed by Darius II. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • NEHEMIAH: The new frontier in Biblical archaeology
    ... This same cupbearer is with Artaxerxes in 4 scenes. ... depicting him with Xerxes and Darius. ... Now the fake Greek revised history claims that Darius inherited Atossa, ... the year 511 BCE for that event. ...
    (sci.archaeology)