Re: Food Culture: The European Mesolithic.

In sci.archaeology message news:ecv1f9$1on$1@xxxxxxxxx by "Uwe
Müller" <uwemueller@xxxxxxxxxx> . . . :

Btw, it would be quite hard to define a boundary between the
simple collection of seeds, and the aiding or safe-guarding of a
crop of naturally occurring grasses. It would be interesting to
test, how much regular harvesting of a wild species would
transform the genetic basis towards a common date for ripening,
towards seeds sitting more loosely in the ears etc.

But, I think one has to be a stickler about seeds in this respect
just arguing that they don't preserve because of soil type or
because this that or the other doesn't explain other observations.

Or if I could make this basic judgement, because it seats well
with some of the confusion. Let me argue for a second that
we don't know when precisely the northern migration though the
western corridor took place, it seems by the mesolithic archaeology
that was available that in terms of food culture, the southwestern
mediterranean was on the verge of the neolithic, they simply
were replacing wild versions with domesticated versions of the
animals they hunted. Not only in the archaeological but in the
radiochemical studies the observation even close to coastal sites
of more terrestrial mammals and less fish, evidence of grass seeds,
etc, nuts were present but less relatively speaking. In the north,
at two sites one radiochemical and the other shells indicate a
stronger reliance on marine foods and nuts than with the southern
half.
From a cultural point of view if your culture was incipient
agriculture and someone brings seeds that produce more and behave
better, it is a relatively minor shift, at least in a good growing
year, in a bad growing year you might have to fiddle with
percentages. But if the culture had no incipients agriculture of
such grains it could be a severe shift. One can look at the data
and suggest that T.t.m, and T.t.d had problems in the north, T.t.e.
still requires much difficulty to grow in Ireland. This tells us
right off the bat that Triticeae would be limited in these regions.
And yet the population within the molecular, is showing signs of
spreading and relative success, particularly if you compare them
with the nodes in germany and france. Therefore something this NW
population is doing is contributing to their relative success and
probably a reason why the mesolithic persists a much longer time in
this region, or to put otherwise, relatively speaking neolithic
culture is less successful, or more carefully parts of the
neolithic package are less successful. Hopefully I have convinced
you by now that T1 taurids were brought into the Ilse at a time
when the channel was present but not horifically restrictive to
travel, one could probably see a potential for travel. Bovids were
successful in southern england, and so was the practice of dairy.
However according to Clinical science 68, 573-579, Bruce et al. Of
the three most tTG reactive sites are dimethyl casien 0.188,
Gliadin 0.170, Deamidated gliadin 0.022 and Collagen 0.021. My
basic assumption here is that at the mesolithic/neolithic boundary
in NW europe that all negatively selective factors are present at
their maximum extend. The basic problem is that glaidin-tTG
interaction leads intolerance to other foods. Thus excesses of
gliadins can cause allergies to milk, collagen. These are noted
quite frequently. Thus the basic assumption here is you can have a
cattle industry without a displacement but not a Triticeae and
Dairy industry. Ergo I made the point about increased levels of
DQ2.5 in the highlands and the potential of a mesolithic transition
to cattle industry without the other elements of LBK. (Although I
still have no good explanation about how genetic elements arrived).

I remember a lot of remarks on the possibility of a strong
bonding of pre-neolithic people to sites, were grass seeds could
be harvested in worthwhile amounts without any traces of
domestication or regular farming.

I have read some of these papers, but frankly I have to go with the
genetic evidence. For example, the evidence points to migration
either from north africa or from the middle east after the
paleolithic. There are no obvious waves as this would bias the
frequencies, but on the other hand native nodes in the region are
repressed. Therefore the gradual transition seen in the west may be
simply additions of migrants from africa and the middle east who
simply had a preference for mammals and cereals and a few seeds
dropped out of the 'pockets' and were preferentially allowed to
survive.
Culture may arrive with very little genetics, but genetics
seldomly arrive with very little culture.

And what did theNeolithic people eat, according to those
papers? "We have also recognized a primary vegetarian
component in the diet of the Neolithic Ice Man of the
Oetztaler Alps (5200 BP)."
No cattle there.

No cattle there, that is correct, and he was running though a
forest and what is the opinion about the mans cultural context?
Aside from that he was copper age. OTOH he was part of a
differnt Neolithic/Copper age culture, a culture that had
stronger ties to the NW.

It was your example, not mine; tellling me it has no value for
the time in question seems a bit peculiar.

I am just trying to cover all the bases. To be representative of
the whole.

.

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