Re: Questions

"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:95rhh25862kqdcdtq7osm2uvu0ub71b5ri@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:43:51 GMT, "Inger E"
<inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:r4dhh2prqjltej7gq7vkbv8stbtritlgo4@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 02:00:32 GMT, "Inger E"
<inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

No Eric,
you completely misunderstood me. See below/IEJ
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:35:25 GMT, "Inger E"
<inger_e.johansson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:aj9fh2httto13uorm4eejb4nbf65hr6poh@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:24:05 GMT, "Alan Crozier"
<name1.name2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

---- snip -----

It wasn't the Orkneys which I particularly questioned. It was
Inger's
statement:

"I think it's fair to say that during an intervall in that
warm
period the Ocean's waterlevels were 15 meter higher than
today....."

I might accept a few centimetres at some time but 15 meters
is more
tha I know about.


You can find details at the Royal
Library catalogue. Type sediment into the title field, Ahl
into the
author field and 1974 as the publication year.

A second-hand copy is available here:

http://www.hjortedsantikvariat.se/booklists/vastergotland2.htm

Come now! Do you have the appropriate PGP key for an
antipodean
speaker of english?

Eric,
Do you read French? Found one work that might help you dealing
with
the
fluctation in water-levels during Bronze Age. Please observe
that it
wasn't
only flooding but regress, water has a tendency in the
water-cycle to
'go
up' in the air, fall down as rain and snow and in newly dried
earlier
under
water areas take the closest way down to the
ground-watersystem. What
had
happened in the earlier period was that the ground-water system
all
over
the
world had decreased and reached it's lowest known value every.
I saw a
figure earlier today that in southern China the groundwater had
been
more
than 50 meters lower in areas where no Ice-Core from Ice Age
ever
existed.

This is complicated to explain but after first flooding, and
than up
to
108
meters above todays waterlevel in many areas close to where the
Ice
Core
had
had it's southern 'border', then the water withdraw due to the
fact
that
water want to have a balance in the water-cycle. After that
came a
sudden
rise of approx 15 meters above todays level due to the fact
that so
much
landmass started to rise and that the landrise is a retarding
process
which
starts not exactly directly after the Ice above melted but
close to
depending on grounds. This massive landrise all over northern
hemisphere
had
an impact -> waterlevels in the Oceans started at one point
during the
process to rise once again.

Now come the big problem which no one here put on the table:
there
were a
"sudden" 6 meter rise of Ocean's waterlevels AFTER migration
Age/Western
Roman Empire's fall to the early days of the Viking Age. There
you had
a
period once again with higher levels than today.... it
decreased from
mid
1300's to late 1500's.

I think I am beginning to understand what you were saying. You
were
not referring to the global sea level being 15 meters higher
than at
present but 15 meters higher than at present in relation to some
land-based bench mark which was in the process of isostatic
rebound.

NO NO NO. The Ocean level, all over the globe, China's southern
coast
included, as Japan, Australia (mentioned in French papers) and
land in
Europe that never was under the Ice Core, saw a 15 meter higher
waterlevel
in one of the fluctation periods during Bronze Age.

I know it might even have been higher during the Roman period, but
that is not what I was questioning. It was the 15 metres about
which I
expressed doubt and for which I asked you to provide a verifiable
reference.

And Alan sent you ref to a work where this is mentioned.

Alan, is this correct? Have you cited a work which describes the
global sea level as being 15 meters above the present at some time in
the bronze age?

I haven't seen the work to which Inger refers so I don't know what the
authors say, if anything, about global sea level. Their report is about
"Recent sedimentary deposits and sediment chemistry" of Lake Vättern.
Inger cites it only in connection with the tilting of the lake which led
to the formation of the river Motala Ström ca. 5700 BC.

I don't understand why Inger seems so reluctant to quote a source to
back up her statement. She said it was in a pre-stage of her C-essay. I
have only the finished essay. That's from 1993. Surely some research has
been done since then?


A work which isn't
easy for those who live abroad to get hold of, that's true, and the
larger
studies made around the world mostly by scholars of Geology with
Maritime
and or Oceanographic speciality. Those studies which in themselves
can be
made in many different language aren't for 'every' man and woman to
get hold
of due to the fact that they are work-material and if published only
published for minor group's mainly leading groups in countries or
international companies search for oil, water or minerals, those
aren't
possible to get hold of for 99,9 % just because the specific fact you
are
asking for is within other more special studies. Found without being
looked
for in most cases. And work-stuff/work material aren't official. One
have to
deal with what's official and in this case Alan draw your attention
to an
Official study which happened to mention this which I known from the
former
studies I came accrosss in 1965-68.

And the Roman Age rising you refer to is only one out of many
fluctations
mentioned over and over in works. It was also one of the minor
risings.
That's why I am surprised you know about that and not the other.

As I tried to explain to you and others here for the last 11 years
now
Ocean
levels never are a fix level,
waterlevels depends on so many factors, one of them is of course
how much
water been at any given time bound in ices around the world, but
that's
only
one of many factors. Others are groundwater levels which when it's
reached
saturated levels can't take in/absorbe more the 'next' part of
melting
water/water falling down as rain and/or snow on land then
following the
water cycle down to lowest possible level on it's way to streams,
rivers
and
out in the Ocean also have a large inpact on the fluctation.

This means directly that at the point when the land's grounds
absorbed as
much water as possible, more water in the system will reach
streams,
rivers
etc flowding down and out to the Ocean. This is one of many
factors which
directly leads to rising waterlevels.

Now there is others. One of the major is the angle our Earth have
towards
the sun combined with if at any given moment our moon one way or
an other
is
'placed' in a line sun-moon-Earth or sun-Earth-moon. During some
seasons
or
rather changes of seasons when the sun 'reach' certain points the
air
above
sky gets high or low preasures which also have an impact on how
much
water
the sky and clouds and weather system can 'take' in or 'leave'
back
directly
to the ocean.

There are at least 10 other important factors to take into
consideration
but
I leave that out here.

I
can accept the possibility that in some places, for a period of
time,
the sea was rising faster than was the land. Mind you, I don't
know
whether or not that actually occurred.


As late as short after Western Roman Empire's Fall the 'sudden'
rise in
Oceans were 6 meters and continued to rise especially during the
early
period of the Greenlandic settlement. Then you mustn't forget that
when
areas where there was a landrise due to earlier being under up to
1000000
meter or more Ice Core started to rise, an impact on Oceans
depending on
the
large landmass, northern parts of the Euro-Asian thermic plate as
well as
the northern of North America, also a had an impact on Ocean
levels all
around the world.

Mind you the waterlevel in Oceans always has fluctaded and in any
given
observation point/site around the world the ordinary level change
up and
down at least 1-2 meters each year.

If we continue to see melting Ices in the Arctic at today's speed
for the
next 300 years, then the impact on waterlevel in Oceans at worst
will be
what it was when Eric the Red reached Greenland. That's the true
figures.
Not fictive expolated figures where not all of the water cycle's
different
stage around all of our world is taken into consideration.

Alan


.

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