Re: Waldseemuller map & Pacific Ocean


Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:05:55 GMT, Doug Weller
<dweller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I just found
http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/Articles/TerraeIncognita.html

where Thompson writes "Most dictionaries and encyclopedias indicate that
the word "hurricane" is derived from the Native American word "hurakan"
encountered often in Mayan tradition. It is generally regarded as a
post-Columbus import to Europe, however it is seen on numerous Medieval
maps near the western Caspian Sea and was known to Aristotle."

I have argued about this with him earlier this and asked for help here.

As for Aristotle, Alan Crozier told us "

"Aristotle's word is eknephias. I've seen three different translators
render it as hurricane.
Liddell & Scott's dictionary defines it as "a hurricane, caused by clouds
meeting and bursting".

The word is composed of "ek-" meaning "out, ex-" and "nephos" meaning
cloud, so etymologically it means something coming "out of the clouds", a
"cloudburst"."

I can't follow a derivation of the word hurricane from Aristotle's
eknephias, so I can only assume it didn't occur to Thompson to find out
what word Aristotle actually used.

I asked Gunnar twice to explain this and he never did.

He did however say

"My thanks for the additional information regarding word derivations and
ancient maps. We all agree that Hircanium or some similar area of land and
sea were known in Roman times. While I have not proven a new derivation
for the word hurricane, I hope we can all agree that the word (apparently
first noted by Peter Martyr in reference to the chronicles of Ovido) was
not introduced into Europe by Columbus.
We still have the issue of the "Caspian Sea" directly north of Europe on
the Albertin DeVirga Map (1410/1414) which seems to me a legacy of Roman
knowledge of the Gulf of Mexico as it is shown clearly on the Macrobius
Map and has the same features (southeastern jutting peninsula with
adjacent isles north of a huge gulf). "

He also wrote:
""On
a Map by ompoinus Mela, 1st century, in Hapgood, 1979, Figure 8, we
see "Hyrcanicus Sinae" as a region of the sea in the Caspium Mare that
is situated Northeast of the Middle East. This placement corresponds
to the Western Caspian Gulf--which was the Roman name for the Gulf of
Mexico. The Rudimentum Novitiorum Maps (15th century) have a region
called "Hircania" that is situated in northeast Asia"."

But the only source I could find for "Hyrcanicus Sinae" was GT himself.

I presume someone has misread Hyrcania.
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/hyrcania/hyrcania.html
But that was a real place, definitely no where near the Gulf of Mexico.
He doesn't seem to have done his research at all here. And Hircania is
just an alternative spelling. Far from meaning a storm, it means 'land of
the wolves'.

Oh -- Hircanium seems to be his own invention, or at least a word that
certainly isn't exactly common.


I originally started reading Thompson with interest but he now seems
to me to be as reliable as a two-bob watch (20 cents to the
unenlightened). Nevertheless, apparent likeness of the land to the
right of the De Virga map to the coast of Peru is disconcerting.

Yes. However, so much of the rest of the map is nothing like accurate,
even (as far as I can tell anyhow) for lands very well known at the
time.

To me, this argues for dumb luck, not impressive prior knowledge. If
'Ca Paru' is really Peru, then where is the equally accurate Korea, or
Malasia, or India? Or Japan, come to that.

If the woo-woos want to press Chinese voyages of exploration and
cartography into the service of their odd ideas, then at least ask for
consistency for the areas Chinese folks should have known far better
than the coast of a land far away.

And, of course, why just the coast of Peru? Weren't the Chinese
supposed to have voyaged to all the coasts of the Americas? Why leave
poor Peru hanging out all alone, with no pals to pal around with?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Etymologicon
    ... queen who ruled it, Calafia. ... sort of name an explorer is likely to give a new land.) ... Mundo Novamenta Ritrovata - the first published map of the western ... volcanoes - the true meaning of California, surely, the land of hot ...
    (rec.puzzles.crosswords)
  • Re: Kensington runestone Vegetation)in the Scandinavian press
    ... >>>Runestone hill rises from flat land with adjacent lakes. ... >the map, however not much after that is present. ... >since they put the gates on the colorado river 10 or 15 years ago. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Etymologicon
    ... queen who ruled it, Calafia. ... sort of name an explorer is likely to give a new land.) ... Mundo Novamenta Ritrovata - the first published map of the western ... volcanoes - the true meaning of California, surely, the land of hot ...
    (rec.puzzles.crosswords)
  • Re: Puzzle: Route Planner using a World Map in Excel
    ... collision detection (when you "hit" a land mass) would be better. ... you could do an Alt+PrintScreen of the map ... Changing the time zone re-centres the map, ... with blue for sea and green for land. ...
    (microsoft.public.excel.programming)
  • Re: Nevada Public Lands -- Dock Blocked by Irrate Resident
    ... There is a map from 1930 that shows that easment ... The resident is now suing the state ... The land was purchased using bond act money @ ...
    (rec.boats)