Re: Christian Origins and Archaeology


Carl wrote:
Tom McDonald wrote:
...
Whoa, baby! This is starting in medias res big-time.
.
Back up to the archaeology. The first thing is to look at the thing(s)
itself.
...
Ignorant. Help me repair that, piece by piece, as an archaeologist
would.

Well, at least you tried Google Images.

Beautiful pictures of the Qumran sundial are found in the book 'A Day
at Qumran', ed. A Roitman (Israel Museum, Jerusalem, 1997).

Note Ref 1 for Thiering's article on The Qumran sundial - excerpt

(1) M.Albani and U. Glessmer, 'Un instrument de mesures astronomiques
à Qumran' Revue Biblique 104, 1, 1997, pp. 88-115. See also Pfann,
S.J., 'The Writings in Esoteric Script from Qumran', in The Dead
Sea Scrolls Fifty Years After their Discovery 1947-1997, eds L. H.
Schiffman, E. Tov, J.C. VanderKam, Israel Exploration Society, with the
Shrine of the Book, Israel Museum, Jerusalem, 2000. It was S. Pfann who
first recognised the object as a sundial, but his explanation of the
markings is even less convincing.

The Qumran sundial
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/308

Then again, to be exhaustive, use KEYWORDS Thiering sundial to get all
her articles
commenting on the Qumran sundial in the Search Facility for the above
Internet Forum I moderated for 4 years.

I realize you want the Internet to deliver it all to you, but no can
do. Perhaps I have
an advantage over you because BT gave me a copy of her article and you
don't have it.

It costs money - if interested, add to shopping cart.

THE QUMRAN SUNDIAL AS AN ODOMETER USING FIXED LENGTHS OF HOURS
by Dr. Barbara Thiering
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/brill/dsd/2002/00000009/00000003/art00003

Excerpt from page 355 -

An Odometer Using Fixed Length of Hours

It may be argued, rather, that the object, originally a sundial, had a
secondary function which did not rely on shadows, the detachable gnomon
having been removed. The added marks were for the purpose of adapting
it to serve as a kind of odometer for travellers, who carried
the small object with them. It measured the distances walked in terms
of time.

Page 362 - excerpt

If each mark on the rings of the dial stood for 800 cubits, and if
there were a fixed length of hours, then a time-distance ratio is
supplied, a walking rate.

Page 363 (conclusion) - excerpt

The rules for "camps" given in the context of a residence in Damascus
in CD, would
inidcate that Damascus, understood literally, was an outlying centre to
which leaders
from Qumran travelled. The document composed there, CD, would have
been brought
back to Qumran and placed in caves. Moreover, archaeological evidence
is now
increasing that there were Essene centres at some distance from Qumran.
The recent
discovery of large numbers of Qumran-type graves at Khirbet Qazone in
Nabatea(17),
and of similar graves near Jerusalem itself(18), as well as of
Qumran-type cisterns at
El-Kharrar east of Jordan opposite Jericho(19), add to the evidence
already known
of related centres down the west coast of the Dead Sea. We are dealing
with a network
of places that looked to Qumran as their centre of organisation and
leadership. It may be
that one of the travelling ascetics has left behind his stone odometer
as permanent evidence
of his fellowship with other members in different places.

(17) K.D. Politis, "Excavations at the Nabatean Cemetery at Khirbet
Qazone, 1996-1997,"
ADAJ 42 (1998). See the discussion in "Who Lies Here?" BAR 25/5
(Sep/Oct 1999) 48-53.

(18) B. Zissu, "'Qumran Type' Graves in Jerusalem: Archaeological
Evidence of an Essene
Community?" DSD 5 (1998) 158-71.

(19) See the Internet article by M. Waheed,
http://www.elmaghtas.com/xcavation/xcavation.html.

Nope, you still don't get it. I do not give a flying crap about
Theiring's, or anyone else's, analysis of the (apparently singular)
sundial. At this point.

Tell me about the finding of the object, as I asked in my previous
post. If something isn't easily available, don't tell me I can't have
it without paying. If you know the story, or have the details of its
finding ready to hand, *you* tell the story.

I am interested in the archaeology. You say there is archaeology, but
can't seem to share any.

So far, I am not blown away.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: I proved my point on Humbert & Chambon - Qumran archaeologists
    ... peer reviewed article authored by Dr. Thiering? ... the first place or having NO INTEREST in looking at the Qumran archaeology ... scholars, academics, and theologians INCOMPETENT. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Christian Origins and Archaeology
    ... do you know what de Vaux was investigating ... Herod the Great and the Qumran Community ... A Decade and a Half of Archaeology in Israel and in Jordan ... known.9 These small, stone sundials present a problem, however. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Christian Origins and Archaeology
    ... Back up to the archaeology. ... Beautiful pictures of the Qumran sundial are found in the book 'A Day ... THE QUMRAN SUNDIAL AS AN ODOMETER USING FIXED LENGTHS OF HOURS ... El-Kharrar east of Jordan opposite Jericho, add to the evidence ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Christian Origins and Archaeology
    ... Still don't care, still not archaeology. ... that Qumran was an Essene settlement. ... The scrolls were found in a series of caves just to the west of the ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Christian Origins and Archaeology
    ... Still don't care, still not archaeology. ... that Qumran was an Essene settlement. ... sheilded in caves or they were put there by others for other reasons. ... #4 your references are pretty much not worth a crap. ...
    (sci.archaeology)