Re: Tara's Bog Man: Wealthy Dandy or Celtiberian Scout

On 28 Jan 2007 16:36:48 -0800, in sci.archaeology, K. M. Kirby wrote:


It's true that much of Celtic interaction may not necessarily have
been in the form of outright conquest. However, it is known that after
some point, the Western Irish Celtic community became primarily of
Iberian (and some Eastern Mediterranean) extract. Tara passed from the
hands of its original occupants to a heriditary Iberian military
leadership, after the fashion of the Iberian castros.

Some evidence would be nice. I haven't seen any so far. The
archaeological evidence shows continuity of habitation.

If one guess can be made from Cloneycavan Man, it is that his date of
capture marks sets the Iberian influence within an exact timeframe.

No it doesn't. Not without evidence.

Was he a condemned local malefactor, given an unusual execution by the
Tara druids? Most bog burials were hanged and gutted, before being
staked down in the sphagnum "where the sun don't shine." Or was he
something else; perhaps a surprise visitor -- as well as a
foreshadowing -- for the earlier inhabitants of Tara?




On Jan 26, 10:46 pm, "Day Brown" <daybr...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 26, 5:45 pm, "K. M. Kirby" <kevin.ki...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:> IMO, 2003's Clonycavan Man shouldn't be held up as proof of some
unimaginable inter-Celtic trade network.You dont have to imagine it. One work I had, on early hill forts, noted
that after they began to appear, say 3500 BCE, they were around for
centuries, but then suddenly, constuction stopped and they were
abandoned. To be restarted again in some later era, but then abandoned
again.

Why? the other great enemies of hominids come to mind besides armies:
famine & pestilence, in which the amassing of troops in any area has
deadly consequences. I just read of one example in Gibbon, where
Maxminan, an 8 foot tall Thracian who had installed himself as Roman
emperor among the Legions on the Danube, when rebellion broke out in
Rome to his bloody policy and rapine ruin of the economy, took his
legions over the Alps... to find a scorched earth, where in early
spring, all the houses had been torn down, all the livestock driven
away, and all the food hauled inside the walls of rebellious cities.

Over the long span Gibbon deal with, there is this cycle of over
exploitation by the warrior class which ruins the economy, and famine &
pestilence break out, which destroy the organization of legions. Forts
dont do any good, in fact, make things worse. Then, there's a period
where the farmers begin to trade freely again, building up their houses
and villages until they again become rich target zones.

IIRC, posted here was a report from Archaeology magazine of a curious
site not far from Paris. At first, it looks like a defensive fort with
a circular ditch. But there's really no trace of extensive defensive
works. Instead, what it looks like is a cattle corral, and they found
lots of small scattered debris like beads and drilled shells that were
commonly traded: 7000 years ago. Amber from the Baltic, sea shells from
the Atlantic coast, and pottery shards from the Cucuteni of Danube
delta. They also found some graves in the area; the men were dealing
over the graves of their own grandfathers to bear witness.

I think the populations of Europe continually boomed and crashed. The
warrior class is terrific for conquering an empire, but they cant
really run one. And after they have mismanaged the resource base long
enough, the whole system breaks down. Then, its the turn of the
farmers, who can go into the forests or desolate abandoned areas and
pioneer, thereby feeding themselves and their families. Of course, by
then, most of the warrior classes already starved to death.

Gibbon reports that the soldiers of the Legions carried 17 days worth
of food. After that, they rely on local sources. Scorched earth wipes
them all out after 60 days. During times of peace and equitable
trading, the farmers grow grains. But if armies loom, then they switch
to tubers, which remain hidden in the ground. Then, after the army
passes by, they come out of the forest and reclaim their food supplies.

As for what was going on with the Clonycavan man, there's no way of
telling.
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

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