Re: Tara's Bog Man: Wealthy Dandy or Celtiberian Scout

On Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:52:40 -0600, in sci.archaeology, Searles O'Dubhain
wrote:


"Doug Weller" <dweller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:rfo5s2toqv4eth862s6ank7a2plbr09o42@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 17:39:22 -0600, in sci.archaeology, Searles
O'Dubhain
wrote:


"Doug Weller" <dweller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:eka4s2pel6q78nvh5joboka8a307ke6npq@xxxxxxxxxx

<snip>

And crucially, no classical writer refers to the inhabitants of the
British Isles as Celts.



In _The Gallic War_, on page 95, Caesar (translation by Carolyn
Hammond)
writes:

"The inland regions of Britain are inhabited by people whom the
Britons
themselves claim, according to oral tradition, are indigenous. The
coastal areas belong to people who once crossed from Belgium in search
of booty and war: almost all of these inhabitants are called by the
same
national names as those of states they originally came from. After
waging war they remained in Britain and began to farm the land.
Population density is high, and their dwellings are extremely numerous
and very like those of the Gauls."

If Gauls were Celts, then Britons were also Celts.


But that isn't what Caesar is saying. He's talking about the coastal
areas, ie the SE, and I've already said that from about the 2nd
century
bce this area had a very close relationship to Europe and copied a lot
of
its lifestyle, had a lot of trade, etc. They are some of the
inhabitants,
true. But their lifestyle was recent and this is not 'the British
Isles'
but a relatively small part of what we know as England now.

Doug

That's true. My take is that the coastal areas receive an influx of
people from the outside and the heartland remains pretty much unchanged.
That's as true for modern countries as it was for ancient lands..

However, Caesar is saying that Gauls and hence Celts do live in these
coastal areas in contradiction to what you said about "no classical
writer refers to the inhabitants of the British Isles as Celts." Whether
one inhabits the coastal areas or the heartlands, one still inhabits.
Celtic culture came to the British Isles through the coastal areas from
migrations, invasions, trade and invitation. Look at how Christian
culture arrived through many of the same methods.

Caesar battled the Celtic tribes and his successors battled against
Celtic tribes with Druids. These Celtic tribes had the same or similar
names to those found on the Continent. They also had Druids to more
firmly establish the cultural similarities that were noted in Caesar's
commentaries. This is not to say that there were not also indigenous
tribes that weren't Celtic. The lack of genocide accounts and the
directly stated existence of these tribes in Caesar's and later
commentaries show that not to have been the case.

Caesar was however speaking as you say only of the population of a
relatively small part of the British Isles and he certainly seems to be
distinguishing that population from the population of the rest of the
British Isles.

I can't recall, are you defining Celtic as speaking a Celtic language?


I expect that the Norman Conquest left a pretty diverse mixture of
Celts, Saxons, Angles and indigenous people in the British Isles that
was similar to any Celtic conquest or invasion in its impact on
population make up. That'd be a good analogous example for the previous
invasions and their impacts.

Searles O'Dubhain

--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

.

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