Re: Barbara Thiering Refuted!


"Carl" <pchristainsen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1173642887.824300.230200@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mar 10, 5:17 pm, "Tom McDonald" <kilt...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 10, 1:24 pm, "Carl" <pchristain...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

<snip>

My opinion is only a few, not zero,
in the world can get the pesher out of Mark 9:2-8.

One of the promises of Gnosticism is that one might, through learning
the special interpretation of (whatever), one can become part of the
inner circle, a people set apart (and usually above) the cattle that
can only see the surface. Is that what has attracted you to Thiering?

Of course not. Please forget Gnosticism for now for the narrow
purposes of our conversation.

If so, how many is 'a few'? Are you one of them? Do you hope to be one
of them? If not, what do you expect to gain from your loyalty to
something you admit is largely beyond you?

You are not asking the right questions. Our concern here is to test
her pesher.

And for what it's worth, what makes you think I'm fighting. And what
makes you think that only old people fight? I'm just 58, a mere
stripling. Can't we be feisty too?
...

As we get older, we learn to pick our fights. Please pay attention.
To test her pesher, let's start simple. She herself says she
stumbled onto the clue of it via essene calendar/time indications in
the NT text (4 gospels, Acts, Revelation).

Specifically, page 202 of JRDSS 1992 (Jesus and The Riddle of The
Dead Sea Scrolls) on Day (hemera)
p: festival day, significant day in the calendar

"hai hemerai (plural)
p: the 31st, Regular or Samaritan, as the main day of the three
Preparation Days (1QSa 1:26); or pentecontad 26/I. Word order shows
the season:

en tais hemerais ekeinais "in the days those" March equinox
en tais hemerais tautais "in the days these" June
solstice
en ekeinais tais hemerais "in those days" September
equinox
en tautais tais hemerais "in these days" December
solstice"

As background, I add -

"The four 31sts in the Essene Solar Calendar (364 days in the year)
were significant days. Not only were they the days when great events
were expected, but they also marked the turn of the seasons, as they
were near to the equinoxes
and solstices. Councils of ministers were held at these times, the
leaders going from their villages up to Qumran for meetings on
questions of policy. According to 1QSa 1:26-27 members going to such
councils must be 'sanctified' for three days. The three Preparation
or Purification Days figure prominently in the chronology (cf. Jn
11:55, A 21:24). The 29th, 30th
and 31st of the month were counted as the three days."

She claims this formula works consistently for every case. If the
tester can find even one counter-example based on its
context clearly showing a different season, then Thiering pesher is
disproved. Otherwise, we take further steps of testing
because we are beginning to get the idea that there maybe something to
it.

I admit this testing in detail is tedious. Yet, the scholars have
never done a proper job of it, partly because it is extreme
grunt work, partly because her conclusions seem to most so outrageous.

Comments?

I see no conclusions, only assertions.
No basis is given for any of the assetions.
There is no indication of what she thinks the significance of the assertions
to be.
Since the Gospels timetables follow the normal Jewish temple calendar which
has unrelated lunal and solar cycles, I don't see the ralation to her
"Essene Solar Calendar".

All the best,
David Carl Christainsen
Newton, Mass USA



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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Barbara Thiering Refuted!
    ... in the world can get the pesher out of Mark 9:2-8. ... One of the promises of Gnosticism is that one might, ... en tais hemerais ekeinais "in the days those" March equinox ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Page 161
    ... intercalation, when it is itself constructed on that assumption. ... But the pesher presupposes the calendar. ... the Essenes or proto-Essenes were influenced ...
    (soc.religion.quaker)
  • Christian Origins - why Thiering pesher is plausible if you are up to digesting a load
    ... Last, on Thiering pesher - ... The Heavenly Man and the Grades ... Learning about the Calendar ... LEXICON OF SPECIAL MEANINGS ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: Barbara Thiering Refuted!
    ... the special interpretation of, one can become part of the ... You tell us you don't have the capacity to use Thiering's pesher ... en tais hemerais ekeinais "in the days those" March equinox ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • The 3 bases of Dr. Thierings extracted history from the NT - paradigm shift
    ... For a) the entry to start study is - ... Learning about the Calendar ... Lexicon of Special Meanings ... The Complete Pesher Of The Crucifixion ...
    (soc.history.ancient)