Re: Book lays out how Portuguese found Australia

Eric Stevens wrote:

On 22 Mar 2007 21:54:12 -0700, benlizro@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Mar 23, 1:35 pm, Eric Stevens <eric.stev...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:09:38 +1200, benlizross <benli...@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

--- snip -----

Thanks for the reminders, Eric. I see we discussed some of this as far
back as 1998. And ever and anon there are refrences to "Portuguese
shipwrecks" on the Northland coast, as if this were an established fact.
A week or so ago I heard from a woman who had been visiting up
Dargaville way and heard from the locals, not only about the Portuguese
ship out there, but numerous unmarked graves in the dunes, presumed to
be those of shipwrecked Portuguese sailors! Belief in this seems almost
to be a local cult in the North Kaipara. Yet, unless I'm mistaken, none
of it has ever been verified or investigated in the sort of public,
scientific way we skeptics like to see.

This last may yet occur.

The first I heard of the 'spanish' ship in the Dargaville river was an
article many years ago in the New Zealand Herald, based on stories of
fire and explosions, told by the local maori. Noel Hilliam (who else?)
followed this up and managed to convince NZ Steel to lend them their
ground penetrating radar. Eventually Hilliam and co (with the aid of
the NZ Steel operator) were able to map out a ship-shaped and sized
object in a swampy field where the river used to flow at some time in
the past.

The excavation will be a formidable task. The remains appear to be
below the level of the river which is about 50 metres away. The angle
of repose of the material to be excavated is about 10~15 degrees. An
excavation will cost millions, requiring extensive *** piling and
continuous pumping. I think that is why no more has been done since
the discovery.

Re the graves - yes there were some strange discoveries in the hills
around the north head of the harbour entrance in the very early 1900s.
The bodies we reburied in a community grave in the old Dargaville
cemetery.

As far as Portuguese shipwrecks are concerned, there is a wreck which
comes and goes as the sand moves on the coast. A sample of the wood
has been identified as being from the Philipines (I think). As I
recall it, the wood was dated by Tom Higham (then at Waikato, now at
Oxford) to being late 13th early 14th century which makes it a ripe
candidate for being one of the early ships the Portuguese started
building once they entered the Pacific.



Well, it's good that you remember all this, but how come it has all
remained in the realm of oral tradition, local newspapers and maybe
one local museum? For example, having deployed that expensive
equipment and apparently found something under the ground, how come
they didn't publish their findings in some form in an archaeological
or historical journal, museum records, etc?

Because there was literally NO ONE from academia involved. You will
have to ask yourself how that could be.

Yah, I tried asking myself, but I could think of too many possible
answers. But you don't need to be "from academia" to publish stuff.


And about the graves --
When were the bones re-buried,and by whom? (And for that matter, why?)
Was anything found with them that would tend to confirm their alleged
origin?

'Alleged origin'? What 'alleged origin'?

That they were 16th-century Portuguese shipwreck victims.

And this wood identification? Published anywhere?

Not formally, although I have extracted the details in the past.

No good asking me why things should be like this. It's not my idea.

Fair enough.

Ross Clark
.