Re: SV: Precolumbian artifacts in Mexico.... formerSV: Where are the pre-Columbian artifacts?

On Sun, 06 May 2007 12:33:42 +0200, in sci.archaeology, Erik Hammerstad
wrote:

johansson wrote:
Doug Weller <dweller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:od1r335n4nt8qgt57ie2oqrjktl9cmi4gq@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 05 May 2007 13:35:55 GMT, in sci.archaeology, johansson wrote:

Carl <pchristainsen@xxxxxxxxx> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:1178295039.064368.316700@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
u
ps.com...
On May 4, 11:19 am, Erik Hammerstad <egeha.is.all.you.n...@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Carl wrote:
On May 4, 1:00 am, Erik Hammerstad <egeha.is.all.you.n...@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
...
http://faculty.virginia.edu/phantom/norsepenny.pdf
Well-grounded conjecture ---
Leif the Lucky got to L'Anse aux Meadows.
That's a conjecture too, only the Norse camp at L'Anse aux Meadows
can be regarded as a fact. That it was Leif's fits with the
secondhand stories from Island however, so this conjecture is also
well grounded, and even so irrelevant that it is not worth arguing
over ;-)
Not irrelevant to me, however. It goes without saying that it is not
worth
arguing over. God forbid that there be argument on sci.arch ;-)

Was there any lasting impact that there even were Vikings in North
America
about 1000 years ago? The answer is a FIRM NO. So, God forbid that
someone be ethnocentric in the pursuit of archaeology ;-)

Were there pre-Columbian visitors to America that got to America
by boat across both the Atlantic and the Pacific?

You probably already know the answer because it is already inside
Wikipedia.

Is there more archaeology yet to be done to adduce evidence of it?
Yes, but
in the meantime a literature search may be done in Wikipedia, Google
Scholar,
JSTOR and other specialized databases.
´Thanks Carl,
once again Erik H showed his ignorance of knowledge which most interested
in
the subject already knows about. But I doubt that it will be helped by
telling him where to search for articles. I even doubt that he will be
reading all in sites and articles one recommend. He usually don't.
Anyhow for all other interested these sites might be of interest:


http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=F28039C34EC
8
7CE309E7DCAC8AD08006.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=43757



http://mexico.udg.mx/historia/precolombinas/ingles/Azteca/quetzalcoatl.html
Typical Ingerish reference. This page shows total ignorance of the facts,
but Inger cites it as evidence.

Sorry Doug,
first of all the facts ARE correct - AND typical Dougish not to look who the
url belongs to. Do you believe you know better than the Universidad de
Guadalajara?????? Do you believe you know facts better than Official Culture
representatives of Mexico? Shame on you Doug!
Typical non-scholaristic behavior from you once again.
http://mexico.udg.mx/historia/precolombinas/index.html

Good God Doug when will you learn. You tries to pick on me instead of doing
a proper analyse of texts!

So typical ad hominem when caught with her pants down ;-) But
let's try the views of an Aztec scholar on the "Roman" figurine:
http://www.public.asu.edu/~mesmith9/tval/RomanFigurine.html

Thanks.
Note that the site she is defending makes these claims:
"It is very surprising how Quetzalcoatl (also known as Kukulcan, Gucumatz
and Votan) is in practically in all of the cultures of the precolumbian
Mexico. And all describe it the same, with only small variations.

This god, that tormented Moctezuma with remorses, is considered the Christ
of the precolumbian civilization, since it proclaimed the existence of
only one god and the refusal of sacrifices (typical in the Aztec and Mayan
cultures).

Strangely, this indian deity does not seem to have been natural from
America. All of its descriptions coincide in that it was of "white skin,
with hair on the face and beautiful emerald eyes".

In other words, Quetzalcoatl was white, posibly european. There is a
hipothesis that Quetzalcoatl was a viking, sole survivor of a sea
exploration; it has been especulated as if Columbus was really the first
one to reach America. Some say that it was the vikings- or descendants of
these-, who reached America first. They base themselves on the famous
Temple of the Cross, in Palenque, Chiapas. The Aztecs considered
Quetzalcoatl as the God of Intelligence, the wind. According to the Nahua
leyend, Quetzalcoatl taught man the art of corn cultivating and other
things that allowed the Nahua culture to stand out."

Now I don't care if this culture and entertainment site belongs to a
University, that page is complete nonsense, in fact might even say its a
lie from start to end.

Certainly it is true that the Spanish tried to turn him into a white god,
even Jesus, as some Mormons still claim.

But look at images of Quetzalcoatl in the various codices. Either he has a
strange duckbill mask (as god of the wind) or if he is shown without it,
he has a black face which symbolises he is a priest, or his face is shown
black with vertical yellow stripes.

And his idols are painted black.

A couple of images of him from 2 codices are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl

And finally, see
http://frontpage2000.nmia.com/~nahualli/LDStopics/DigQ/12Whiteman.htm

Inger trusts an unreferenced claim that spews nonsense. Is this because
she really is that ignorant that she believes it and doesn't think it's
important to check, or???

Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

.

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