Re: Roman amphorae from a Roman shipwreck?


"Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthicum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1180548646.749923.109770@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On May 30, 10:59 am, "Uwe Müller" <uwemuel...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Tom McDonald" <kilt...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb im
Newsbeitragnews:I8f7i.3245$6q.1990@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Eric Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2007 21:50:34 GMT, "johansson"
<1732johans...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Eric Stevens <eric.stev...@xxxxxxxxx> skrev i

diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:s73p535ao82kgblqv4ft2vepq55eso7...@xxxxxxxxxx






snip


If you compare the total number of shipwrecks in the Med, no matter what
port of origin, with supposedly hundreds of Roman age wrecks off the
Brazilian coast, then the traffic from Rome to Brazil must have exceeded
the
roman shipping in the Med by a large factor.

As the wrecks from the Med are from a couple of thousand years, while
Roman
seafaring only lasted a couple of centuries, this would imply huge fleets
leaving Rome for Brazil on a daily basis.

I would not accept the 'hundreds of wrecks' on hear-say.

have fun

Uwe Mueller

Also because of the extremely high rate of expected wrecks (Romans
calculated that at least 30% of cargo would have been lost by storms
or pirate assaults), the traffic was proportionally (or perhaps more)
increased, and many goods were found (ordinarily contained in amphoras
or in the larger dolia) that let us understand what the commerce was
about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_archaeology
http://www2.rgzm.de/navis/Themes/Commercio/CommerceEnglish.htm

The number of Roman ships was in the thousands, 1,200 for grain alone.
Blow the estimate out to 4000 ships making at least voyage each
sailing year (about 8 months). From the start of the Empire to 400 AD
or so that would be about 1.6 million ship/voyages. Since the loss of
ships was estimated at 30% there are 480,000 lost ships in the Med for
just 400 years.

And of this 480,000 wrecks how many are known? One in thousand? One in ten
thousand? That would mean that the several hundred known Roman wrecks off
Brazil would be the remains of several hundred thousand or several million
ships that tried the trip, those that failed off the coast of Brazil.

Comparing the number of ships, which we don't really know, with the number
of wrecks in total, which we also don't know is a nice exercise, but it does
have little value. Comparing the number of wrecks known in both areas, can
provide at least a rough estimate about frequency of travel. It is a very
rough estimate, especially as chances of discovery are much higher in the
Med.


If there are 200 shipwrecks of Roman ships in Brazilian waters that
would suggest something like 450 voyages, about one a year for the
same 400 years.

That escapes me.
If 30 % of the ships are lost each trip, 200 (the minimun number for several
hundred) wrecks attest for 600 ships. But that would mean, every disaster,
every pirate attack had to happen off the coast of Brazil and every one of
those ships would have been discovered. How likely is that scenario?

So you'd have to add a number of wrecks undiscovered until now, let's say
100 for everyone we know of, and than at least double the number of wrecks,
the trip back being the harder part of the voyage. A rough, conservative,
minimum-numbers estimate points at several hundred thousand ships that tried
the voyage, 40,000 that were lost, something like 100 regularly every year,
if the basic number of 200 discovered wrecks was correct.

That doesn't sound like a lot of trips if they were blown off a voyage
to the Canaries or the Cape Verde islands.

It all depends on how you do the math.

have fun

Uwe Mueller


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Roman amphorae from a Roman shipwreck?
    ... would imply huge fleets leaving Rome for Brazil on a daily basis. ... Blow the estimate out to 4000 ships making at least voyage ... Roman wrecks off Brazil would be the remains of several hundred ... failed off the coast of Brazil. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Roman amphorae from a Roman shipwreck?
    ... would imply huge fleets leaving Rome for Brazil on a daily basis. ... Blow the estimate out to 4000 ships making at least voyage ... Roman wrecks off Brazil would be the remains of several hundred ... failed off the coast of Brazil. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Roman amphorae from a Roman shipwreck?
    ... As the wrecks from the Med are from a couple of thousand years, ... imply huge fleets leaving Rome for Brazil on a daily basis. ... Blow the estimate out to 4000 ships making at least voyage ... Comparing the number of ships, which we don't really know, with the ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Roman amphorae from a Roman shipwreck?
    ... with supposedly hundreds of Roman age wrecks ... imply huge fleets leaving Rome for Brazil on a daily basis. ... Blow the estimate out to 4000 ships making at least voyage ... coast of Brazil. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Roman amphorae from a Roman shipwreck?
    ... with supposedly hundreds of Roman age wrecks ... imply huge fleets leaving Rome for Brazil on a daily basis. ... Blow the estimate out to 4000 ships making at least voyage ... coast of Brazil. ...
    (sci.archaeology)