Re: Can archaeology speak to the pre-Flood cities?
- From: Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:47:28 +1200
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:59:30 +1200, Eric Stevens
<eric.stevens@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:08:32 GMT, David Johnson
<trolleyfan_nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 29, 2:05 am, Carl <pchristain...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Agreed there was no world wide rising of the waters and covering of
The Jewish people began with Semitic nomads, taking up the way of life
that the
Mesopotamian plebs were forced to adopt.
There were stone cities - Cain was said to have built one (Gen 4:17),
but they held only small numbers
who sought protection within their stone walls.
Agree or disagree with Dr. Thiering and myself?
Basically disagree - as you're using myths and fairy stories as if they
were real history.
Were NGers to find this subject stimulating, would someone post a list
of the pre_Flood cities from Genesis?
Can't be done - as there was no Genesis-style Flood for there to be a
"pre" of.
the land as described in Genesis. But in 1997 Bruce Masse (see
http://www.knowledge.co.uk/sis/abstract/masse.htm ) hypothesised that
Begin quote
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The consistency between myths from widely separate geographic regions
is striking in other envirornmental information categories as well.
In fact, a precise date for the hypothesized comet impact, 10-12 May
2807 BC, was ascertained [1251 from the concordance within the
mythologies of calendrical, seasonal, and verifiable astronomical
indicators (i.e., lunar phase, the presence of solar and lunar
eclipses, and the presence of planetary conjunctions within ascribed
constellations). It is of some interest to note that Chinese myths
indicate that the Flood event occurred at the end of the life of Nu
Wa, consort of first Chinese emperor Fsu Hsi (2953-2838 BC according
to standard chronologies), and who herself allegedly lived until about
the year 2810 BC. Thus there is only three years difference between
the actual impact date and the date generally assigned to the event by
at least some Han Dynasty chronologists. The date of 2807 BC likewise
fits well with archaeological data from Egypt, as is discussed below.
Even the probable location (Atlantic-Indian basin near Antarctica) and
general magnitude of the impact (between 105 and 106 MT, or 100 and
1000 gigatons) could be roughly estimated from the patterning within
the mythology. The Flood Comet impact apparently produced massive
tsunami and several days of torrential rainfall worldwide through the
injection of water vapor into and through the upper atmosphere, and
likewise created vast cyclonic storms which persisted for between five
to seven days [125, 126]. The Flood mythology in aggregate (based on
the relative numbers of deaths described in each set of myths)
suggests approximately 80% of humankind perished as a direct or
ndirect (i.e., starvation, disease) result of the Flood comet impact.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
End quote.
Massive tsunami followed by several days of vast cyclonic storms
followed by several years of famine, all of which collectively wiped
out 80% of the population, is the kind of thing to come down to us in
folk memory in one form or the other.
Subsequently the site of a major comet impact was identified in the
Burckle crater in the southern Indian basin and dated to about the
period Masse hypothesised. The report of a recent expedition to
Madagascar to study the evidence for a megatsunami caused by the
impact can be found at
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/users/menke/slides/madagascar06/report.pdf
The authors say:
"We have found evidence for large tsunami runups at 4
sites:megatsunami chevrons at Faux Cap,Fenambosy, and Ampalaza;
and marine sediment dumped at Cape St. Marie. In the field, we
documented maximum runups of 86 m above sea level at Ampalaza, 186
m at Fenambosy, 205 m at Faux Cap and 192 m at Cape St Marie. Each
of the chevrons represents lateral transport of sediment over many
kilometers: 20 km at Faux Cap, 45 km at Fenambosy, and 45 km at
Ampalaza. The chevrons, if contemporaneous, represent the
highest tsunami runups ever observed over a broad region."
Later they go on to say:
"At the moment, our favored source for the tsunami that formed the
chevrons is the 29 km Burckle impact crater located at 30S, 61E on
a fracture zone of the Southwest Indian Ridge. The Burckle crater
is geologically young, most probably about 4500 to 5000 years
old. If our C-14 dates are similar to our projected age for
Burckle crater, this will be an important result to prove the
reality of the threat of cosmogenic tsunamis and that they
occurred in the recent past."
--- snip ---
Further to this, my wife has dug out for me a copy of 'Lucifer's
Hammer' (1977) by Jerry Pournelle and Poul Anderson. Those of you who
have read the book will know its about what happens to the world after
it is struck by a comet.
Early in the book the authors have several of the characters
calculating the consequences of a strike of one cubic mile of hot
chocolate fudge sunday (as an approximation to a comet) at a cometary
speed of 50 km/sec. They calculate that the impact will release 1E28
(1 followed by 28 zeroes) ergs of energy. That is one third of
humanities total annual energy budget (for 1977) in less than one
minute. They go on to calculate that an ocean strike would vaporise
about 60,000,000 cubic kilometres of water, enough to cover the USA
with 112 feet of water.
The book goes on to develop a scenario remarkably like that of Bruce
Masse. The point that struck me is that the impact of the hot fudge
sunday generated about 640,000 megatons. The Burckle impact is
estimated to have been in excess of 2,000,000 megatons so the global
consequences would have been even more extreme.
It is impossible for such an event to have occurred without having a
major impact on the archaeological record yet no evidence has been
reported as such. The question is why. Did the impact never occur? I
don't think so. The physical evidence is there and cannot be denied.
The problem is more likely to be that no one has ever thought of the
possibility of such evidence existing. We are a bit like the cartoon
of the explorers looking for signs of a large monkey while standing in
the middle of an enormous foot print.
I have a question for those knowledgeable of the archaeology of the
third millenium BC. What is there that we know of that period that
might be consistent with the kind of deluge which would have occurred?
Eric Stevens
.
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