Re: Homo erectus, city dweller and sailor

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:12:06 -0000, in sci.archaeology, J.LyonLayden
wrote:

On Sep 7, 3:17 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:32:33 -0000, in sci.archaeology, J.LyonLayden
wrote:





On Sep 7, 4:30 am, Matt Giwer <jul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
J.LyonLayden wrote:
On Sep 6, 9:59 pm, Matt Giwer <jul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote:
MINERVA JULY/AUGUST 2007 (VOL 18.4)
MINERVA WORLD EXCLUSIVE A New Palaeolithic Revolution
The 'Rangki Papa' ('Father of all Rafts') built using Palaeolithic
technology and approaching the coast of Komodo, Bali, having succeeded
in crossing from Sumbawa, 7 October 2004. The vessel travelled 36.4km
in 9 hours 22 minutes,
While very interesting one has ask after the credibility of a man who thinks
showing a raft can float has any bearing upon what he it talking about. It leads
me to suspect the article has been sanitized to eliminate his wilder ideas.

No he's actually quite sane and has good reason for his experiment.
Thor Heyerdal did a similar thing and it helped our understnading.
Here's an article on the raft guy:

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20031018/bob8.asp

Heyerdahl was an idiot too. Showing it "can" be done is a far cry from showing
it was deliberately done. The FIRST Egyptians to do it knew where they were
headed, carried enough food and water for the trip and knew chose the best route
from their non-existent knowledge of tides and winds. Give me a break. And then
drowned on the first attempt because even Heyerdahl couldn't get it right the
first time.

Sure. They might have died thew second and third time too.
So how do you think the homo erecti got to flores? Floating on
seaweed?
Give ME a break.

On the back of dwarf elephants?

Really? The dwarf elephants would tolerate that? That's almost animal
domestication, in as much as the elephant has ever been domesticated.
Supposedly they can't be.

That would be too cool. Then I could have neanderthals riding mammoths
to war just like hannibal did.
That would look awesome on the big screen.



Actually floating islands isn't an entirely stupid idea, is it?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavener_Runestone


According to the guy who did it on a raft it is. His paraphrased quote
is "Let arm-chair archeologists try making it here on seaweed."


Sure the first was blown off course. Right! So they just happened to have a
huge, sufficiently provisioned ship blown off course from its usual point to
point hopping down the west coast of Africa.

And then, Heyerdahl didn't show a damned thing unless he sailed back on the
same boat. Or did the first magically find exactly the right type of reeds and
fibers and all the rest?

Huh?

Problem is this makes an outstanding question worse. That is the sudden rise of
civilization by HSS after being around for 100,000 years or so. Now we have HSS
seeing HE villages from his first appearance and still not getting the idea
until 6000 years ago.
No he got the idea. Dolni Vestonice is 26000 ybp, and it was more
complex than this. the implication is that the genus Homo has been
building stone huts since 500,000 or earlier. We just haven't been
looking in the right places. And also, stone wasn't always the
material used, so it didn't always last.

So tell me why Homos with bigger brains did not imitate this behavior which was
clearly advantageous else Erectus would not have wasted the effort. We keep up
with the Jones. Why did not our ancestors keep up with the Erecti?

They DID!
This isn't the first hut ever found! It's just the first stone hut.
Man has been making huts, and moreover STONE huts, for 500,000 years.
It's just that archeologists find an incredibly low fraction of what
was actually created.

http://prehistoricfantasy.blogspot.com/2007/07/villages-of-homo-erect...

What is the evidence for stone huts 500,000 years old?
I hope you put my comment on your blog.

I did. I didn't know it was a hoax. I will comment back later today.

But the evidence for stone huts is up above in a second article
relating to this thread's subject. I posted a link to it, my third or
fourth post to this thread.


Here it is again:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1980396.ece

That isn't exactly evidence, yet. As even the article suggests, it needs
more research.
Paul Bahn dates humans in the Americas pretty far back, but even he said:
"Further scepticism was voiced by Paul Bahn, an archaeologist who
specialises in the palaeolithic period. Although he believes that Homo
erectus was quite advanced and capable of building durable structures,
occasionally coming together in large groups, he remains to be convinced
about settlements.

He said: ?Homo erectus could have been there for a few days. He wouldn?t
have carried the tools around. Inevitably, they accumulate. If
hunter-gatherers found no cave or rock shelter, it makes sense that they
might have built a shelter for a few days or seasonally. Just the fact
that they?re made out of stone doesn?t mean they were permanent
settlements. "

This is a big question. Year round settlements sound very unlikely at
that time, and I certainly haven't read about any evidence for any -- that
was a much later stage. Let's wait to see the evidence.




What you have linked to is a notorious hoax.http://www.asiaquarterly.com/content/view/124/
What puzzles me is why you didn't research this a bit more, it is very
well known.

I don't know how it escaped me either. I think I was touring with
Saskia Laroo in 2002 though......









Most likely the reason you find more mammoth ivory/hide huts in europe
than stone huts is because mammoth ivory/hide huts were better for the
conditions.

Have you seen some of the caves that neanderthal lived in? They were
really cool caves.
Why would you bother building a stone hut if you had a naturally made
apartment complex, like the caves in France?

What does any of that have to do with it? Erectus was around when humans first
appeared and have been found in all the tropical areas where Sapiens is found
and contemporaneous with them. I expect bigger and better Sapiens cities in the
same places at the same time. Yet we still have nothing until 6000 years ago.

What are you talking about? Jericho is better and it's 10,000 years
old. There's a temple dated 13000 years old. the cro-magnons built
long houses much better than these little huts. Dolni Vistonice is
better and dates from 26,000 years old. before that, there are lean-
tos and evidence of huts made from perishable material and stone
circle bases going back hundreds of thousands of years.

What I want to know is, what do these guys propose that HE was fishing
with? The oldest known hook is 20,000 ybp.

Spears, pointed sticks, capture pools, bare hands. It is only when a few need
to feed many that something more advanced is needed. That is division of labor
which is a separate line of development that only appears in cities. Farmers do
everything for themselves.

I want a definite educated answer from someone with a PHD in the area,
or at least a degree. You thought that humans didn't make huts until
6000 years ago so please excuse me if I wait for a second opinion. No
offense.

I would like you to do better research.

Man I don't have access to the stuff ya'll have access to. I'm just a
writer/cabinet designer.

At lot of this comes from simple web searching, certainly thep Japanese
stuff did, and most of the new stuff I pick up first on the web.

Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Homo erectus, city dweller and sailor
    ... The 'Rangki Papa' built using Palaeolithic ... showing a raft can float has any bearing upon what he it talking about. ... So how do you think the homo erecti got to flores? ... Man has been making huts, and moreover STONE huts, for 500,000 years. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Homo erectus, city dweller and sailor
    ... showing a raft can float has any bearing upon what he it talking about. ... Are you telling me I missed Heyerdahl making a round trip on the same boat? ... Man has been making huts, and moreover STONE huts, for 500,000 years. ... The older you want to have them built the more of them there are to find. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Homo erectus, city dweller and sailor
    ... The 'Rangki Papa' built using Palaeolithic ... showing a raft can float has any bearing upon what he it talking about. ... Man has been making huts, and moreover STONE huts, for 500,000 years. ... I really need an average height for cro-magnon before 26,000 (as ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Homo erectus, city dweller and sailor
    ... The 'Rangki Papa' built using Palaeolithic ... showing a raft can float has any bearing upon what he it talking about. ... Man has been making huts, and moreover STONE huts, for 500,000 years. ... I really need an average height for cro-magnon before 26,000 (as ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Homo erectus, city dweller and sailor
    ... The 'Rangki Papa' built using Palaeolithic ... showing a raft can float has any bearing upon what he it talking about. ... point hopping down the west coast of Africa. ... Man has been making huts, and moreover STONE huts, for 500,000 years. ...
    (sci.archaeology)