Re: Solid Ground

On Sep 15, 10:39 am, hagen <dan5m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 15, 9:42 am, grapheus <graph...@xxxxxxx> wrote:



On Sep 15, 1:32 am, h...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:43:28 -0700, grapheus <graph...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 14, 11:19 pm, hagen <dan5m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 14, 8:42 pm, grapheus <graph...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 14, 3:17 pm, hagen <dan5m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 14, 2:01 pm, grapheus <graph...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 14, 1:31 pm, hagen <dan5m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 14, 11:41 am, grapheus <graph...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 14, 11:19 am, hagen <dan5m...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

What do you want me to do? Here I count every reliable stroke in the
clay 244 +61+60. And this is wrong, you say.

This is not "mathematically wrong". But it is "biaised" by your desire
to reach a given figure, and moreover without any signification !..

http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/husk.gif
When I demonstrate another choise by defining 70 stems, and as a
logical consequence receive 104 abbreviations 244 +104 +17, this is
wrong too

Same remark : it is not "mathematically wrong", but "biaised" by your
desire to reach a significant figure !..

http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/demo2.htm
The fact is, I did all my countings correct!

On a mathematical point of view, yes !.. But on the point of view of
"making meaningfull calculations", no !.. Your calculations are going
against the "common sense", and are adding pears and apples to reach a
given number, known in advance...

If this is not a
calendar, what is then a calendar?

An object where the hieroglyphs can be interpreted as having some
meaning !.. In your case, you are just dealing with them and with the
dividers as if they were just points and strokes ! (And your Figure is
clearly showing that !). But the hieroglyphs are NOT just that ! they
MUST have a meaning. But in whatever "Calendaric solution" (not only
yours, but others' too), no "reasonable meaning" can be given to them
in the case of thePhaistosDisk, contrary to the other known, similar
true calendars...

Regards
grapheus

You are making up that last paragraph by pure convenience.

Not at all ! It's the truth (see hereafter), even if you refuse to see
it...

It is accepted, that the Stone age populations had confidence with the
year. Simply because they marked those 365 dots usually in a spiral
pattern.
The Maya calendar was accepted as such, long before the meaning and
the method of the hieroglyphs was known,

But there are BIG differences between the Maya Calendar and thePhaistosDisk, that you have (voluntarily) not seen !
a)- the Maya calendar is CIRCULAR, not spiralic. A cicle is LOGICAL
for a calendar, not a spiral.
b)- It is clearly divided into months of almost equal length, what is
not the case with the Disk, the length of the "compartments"
presenting variations from 1 to 3!..
c)- nobody has to "adjust the number of the glyphs" to reach 365 days.
On thePhaistosDisk, we have only 241 or 242 glyphs.

So that, there has NEVER been the least doubt about the Maya Calendar
being a calendar : already in his "Relaciones", in 1864, Landa has
given an universally accepted interpretation... And NOBODY has
presented another one !.. The case is completely different with thePhaistosDisk !..

Please, Ole, open your eyes for once !..

Regards
grapheus- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
So that, there has NEVER been the least doubt about the Maya Calendar
being a calendar : already in his "Relaciones", in 1864, Landa has
given an universally accepted interpretation... And NOBODY has
presented another one !.. The case is completely different with thePhaistosDisk !..

Was it the same Landa, who efficiently had all the written heritage
from the Inka's destroyed?

I don't know, but what I know is that the Landa's work, written
around
1566, but forgotten during 300 years, has been "the key to solve the
Mayan Hieroglyphs" (S.D. Houston, "Maya Glyphs", Berkeley 1989 p. 8).

Please, Ole, open your eyes for once !..
That will wait until you write a single true word about my
decipherment.

I have said NOTHING untrue about your work : I said that first you
make a REMARKABLE and VERY INTERESTING DISCOVERY with your (true)
stems. But that, after, you drew FALSE CONCLUSIONS from it, choosing
EACH TIME the less probable hypothesis : a Minoan versus a Cycladic
ORIGIN for this item, and a Calendar versus a religious document...
In
spite of the fact that there were only 241/242 "days" on it and that
they were other strong problems, including :"What may be the meaning
of the glyphs in the calendaric solution ?"...
That you refuse, with a strange lack of "open mind spirit", to see
the
Truth is one thing ; but don't be surprised if others do not believe
in a "calendaric solution", based upon IMPROBABILITIES (Minoan
origin,
for instance), ERRORS (e.g. your statement that "there is no
satisfactory translation of the Disk, considered as a written
document"), and UNSOLVED PROBLEMS (for instance : "What can be the
meaning of the 45 glyphs?". For the Mayan Calendar, the thing is easy
to guess : as they are only 20 and regularly appear in the same order
when the month changes, they are the "Names of the days of a 20 days
month". No such a thing does exist with thePhaistosDisk).
Regards

grapheus- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nonsense! You take the stems, you take the whole package.

NO !.. The stems are a VALID DISCOVERY of yours. The conclusions you
drew from them are not only unwarranted, but WRONG. Sorry to have to
say that, once more time.

grapheus

My conclusion is the resut of meticulousness. I myself rejected the
calendar for years, untill there were no other choice.

http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/demo2.htm

...thanks to ARBITRARY choices, that, with your usual self-delusion,
you call "conclusions" !...
1)- grouping of 7 or 8 sign-groups to reach an acceptable figure for
the number of days in one "month".
2)- displacing the starting point from A01 to B30 (!)
3)- getting an alternation 29-31 by "ad hoc suppositions" : for
instance, there are only 27 or 28 (true) signs from B30 to A08, not
29).
4)-etc.
Maybe you don't see the "ad hoc character" of these choices, but it is
obvious for the neutral observer, who may compare your solution with
others... (what you refuse to do with false pretexts like : "It cannot
be a text because of the symetries I found"...)

grapheus

1) The congruent halfs between the stem pairs and the reduced stems to
cover, is not a grammatical producthttp://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/gnomonic.htm
2) If you try my stem-definition on a text, you shall typically get
unbreakable clusters of letters or syllables with no direction, while
stems in this inscription easily can be hand-picked.
3) I am not untrustworthy, when I claim that the inscription is
structured by eleven
Hagen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You may have a good flair for languages, and a big knowledge about
etymology; but when it comes to abstracts such as countings
calculations - You are no good! (Nanny says).
http://web.gvdnet.dk/GVD002393/templets.gif
Regards
Ole Hagen

The problem when one tries to discuss with you is that you are
endlessly repeating your same "demonstration" and refuse to come back
to the basics and to answer the questions asked.
So, I repeat the main one : "What are you proposing as the MEANING of
the GLYPHS and other signs ?" .
With the "text solution", the answer is obvious : the glyphs
correspond to SYLLABLES, the separators are CUTTING the WORDS. the
"special separators" are MARKING the BEGINNING of the text, and the
"oblique strokes" marking the NAMES of INDIVIDUALS. With the Mayan
Calendar, the answer is also obvious : the GLYPHS are the NAMES of the
DAYS, or of the MONTHS, etc.
But WHAT about your calendaric solution ?

Regards
grapheus


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