Re: Walking Small: Humanlike legs took Homo out of Africa

In article <1191100233.714866.76330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
rick_sobie@xxxxxxxxxxx says...


On Sep 28, 8:58 pm, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hard to believe this one, but the "back to Africa" movement seems to
have occurred a least 1.77 million years ago if this account is
accurate. Home E and his predecessors seem to have made it as far as
Sakartvelo (Georgia). The description makes Piltdown Man sound like
the norm.

Science News Online

Week of Sept. 22, 2007; Vol. 172, No. 12
Walking Small: Humanlike legs took Homo out of Africa

Bruce Bower

The earliest known human ancestors that trekked from Africa into Asia
possessed legs, feet, and spines much like ours, even as they sported
relatively apelike arms and small brains, according to an analysis of
1.77-million-year-old fossils unearthed in the central Asian nation of
Georgia.

A team led by David Lordkipanidze of the Georgian National Museum in
Tbilisi recovered 33 lower-body bones from at least three adults and
one teenager at a site called Dmanisi. The researchers had previously
found four skulls and four lower jaws, as well as simple stone tools,
in the same sediment (SN: 5/13/00, p. 308). In several cases, skull
and lower-body remains come from the same individual.

The researchers classify these ancient finds as early Homo. The
fossils might be from an early form of Homo erectus that left eastern
Africa for the Asian hinterlands, but a definitive species identity
remains unclear, Lordkipanidze cautions. A description of the new
finds appears in the Sept. 20 Nature.

"The Dmanisi individuals weren't the first hominids [fossil ancestors
of humans] to leave Africa," Lordkipanidze says. "They must have had
more-primitive ancestors that passed through the Near East before
reaching Georgia."

An intriguing mosaic of anatomical traits characterizes the Dmanisi
folk. Their legs and spines closely resemble those of modern humans.
In particular, Dmanisi leg and foot bones would have efficiently
supported long-distance walking and running, the scientists assert.

However, the arms of Dmanisi hominids appear more like those of
australopithecines, an earlier line of hominids. For instance, unlike
people, the new specimens have upper arms that are straight rather
than slightly curved, their shoulders are relatively narrow, and their
palms are oriented forward rather than inward.

Moreover, the Dmanisi individuals are small compared with the oldest
known African H. erectus. That specimen, a 1.5-million-year-old
skeleton of a well-developed, roughly 10-year-old boy, stood tall at
between 151 and 169 centimeters and weighed as much as 70 kilograms.
At Dmanisi, adults reached estimated heights of between 145 and 166 cm
and weighed between 40 and 50 kg.

Such estimates coincide with Dmanisi brain volumes that were one-half
to two-thirds the size of modern human brains.

Sounds like some sort of monkey to me. Humans have larger brains.

Is this a footprint? Well because it is on a biblical website people
will fight to the death to say that it is a rock carving even though
cross sectioning show depressions from the weight of the person.
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/bur***-track.htm

You see people say that these 325,000 year old prints in Italy in
volcanic ash are the oldest prints...
http://media.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3497

But then you have these in Mexico...
1.3 Million years old
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051130232517.htm

Here is a picture of one of the prints...
http://s2.supload.com/free/clear_foot.jpg/view/

And then of course you have the Ed Conrad stuff which is much older.
http://s2.supload.com/free/first-20070921222018.jpg/view/

1.7 millions years, let me see, how about some examples of dams and
water ways constructed that long ago, that were beside a city.

n 1609, the Inca Garcilaso de la Vega published the first volume of
his Royal Commentaries of the Incas in Lisbon. The second volume
appeared posthumously in 1617. Over seventy years had elapsed since
the Spanish conquistadors led by Francisco Pizarro had first set eyes
on the empire on the Incas.
(Garcilaso de la Vega was the son of a Conquistador. That date is
questionable see below)

[quote]

"As there is in Peru a story of some giants who landed on the coast at
the point of Santa Elena, in the vicinity of the city of Puerto Viejo,
I have resolved to mention what I was told about them, as I understood
it, without taking into account the opinions of the common people and
their various anecdotes, for they usually magnify events larger than
life. The natives, repeating a story received from their forefathers
from very remote times, say that there came from across the sea on
reed rafts that were as large as big ships some men that were so big
that an ordinary man of good size scarcely reached up to knees: their
members were in proportion to the size of their bodies, and it a
monstrous thing to see their enormous heads and their hair hanging
dawn about their shoulders."

...

""When these great men or giants had thus made their settlement and
dug these wells or cisterns, they destroyed and ate all the supplies
they could find in the neighborhood. It is said that one of them ate
more than fifty of the natives of the land; and as the supply of food
was not sufficient for them to maintain themselves, they caught much
fish with nets and gear that they had. They lived in continuous
hostility with the natives, because they slew the latter's women in
order to have them, and they also slew the men for other reasons. But
the Indians were not numerous enough to kill these newcomers who
occupied their land and lorded it over them; and although they held
great discussions about this, they never dared attack them."

...

"In the present year of 1550 when in the city of Lima, I heard that
when his excellency Don Antonio de Mendoza was viceroy and governor of
New Spain, certain bones of men as big as these giants, and even
bigger, were found there. I have heard too that in an ancient
sepulcher in the city of Mexico or somewhere else in that kingdom
certain bones of giants have been found. Since so many people saw them
and attest having done so, it can therefore be credited that such
giants did exist and indeed they may all have been of the same race."
[unquote]

Hmmm... sounds like they may been eating your Olmecs monkey hybrids,
(those bones you found and are trying to claim they are our ancestors)

So anyways I found the cisterns that these giants made and they are
above Cusco in Peru.
http://s2.supload.com/free/giant_cistern-9-4-2007.jpg/view/

Its very very ancient. Difficult to say just how ancient. The steps
leading up to it, are something like 8 or 10 feet tall.
You can see the tiny stones of the Incas sitting on them here...
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/23402



Why doesn't someone dig down to bedrock inside that cistern and date the
microorganisms?
Water flowed through there, you can see the huge water channels and
spillways. You can see where the rock was worn down, by the flow of the
water.
This is to the detail left and below the main cistern...
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3773357




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