Re: The Dawn of Art

On Oct 7, 8:19 pm, Tom McDonald <kilt...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 7, 6:52 pm, David <pchristain...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
...
I heartily thank Tom McDonald for giving me a little rope even
though Tom does not have the follow-thru to study João Zilhão's
original paper OR

Read it. So?

Lame. IOW, I am disappointed in you. Surprise me
with a 180.

Richard Rudgley's SECRETS OF THE STONE AGE SERIEShttp://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/troufs/anth1602/video/Secrets.html
&
THE LOST CIVILIZATIONS OF THE STONE AGE (see Amazon.com)

Derivative and behind the times. So?

No - Rudgley's approach is reasonable and thought provoking IMHO.

...
Is this going to be your summary of Conard's arguments in the
Archaeology article with which you started the thread?

No - I was answering Digger to give Conard's conclusions in more
general terms than just the Archaeology article but you assumed
a more narrow approach on my part.

IOW, I started the thread narrow but branched off to Zilhão, Rudgley,
Bolus, and more general Conard.

Alternatively, what do you want to talk about out of the mish-mash
above?

Back up to -

Ancient Figurines Found-From First Modern Humans?
National Geographic News - John Roach
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/12/1217_031217_modernhum...

Cultural Significance SECTION -

Do the diving waterfowl and lion-man show shamanism?

Cultural Modernity SECTION

"The ability to create figurines, which requires manipulation of
complex
tools, together with the fashioning and use of musical instruments and
ornaments, is considered a sign of having reached a stage of fully
developed cultural modernity."

"Evidence for refined artistry at such an early date in humans goes
against the belief that artistic skills evolved over thousands of
years,
said Anthony Sinclair, an archaeologist at the University of Liverpool
in England.

Sinclair, who wrote an accompanying commentary in Nature on the
figurines, said they are 'beautifully produced,' suggesting that
humans evolved their artistic skill rather quickly.

If the evolution of artistic skill occurred over longer time scales,
crude relics ought to be present in the archaeological record.
'But when you look at the first bits of evidence, they seem to
be of very good quality right away,' said Sinclair."

"Archaeologists are exploring several lines of evidence that suggest
something occurred in the course of human evolution around 40,000
years ago that allowed humans to cross the threshold towards
cultural modernity."

Compare to Zilhão's abstract -

"Abstract The earliest known personal ornaments come from
the Middle Stone Age of southern Africa, c. 75,000 years ago,
and are associated with anatomically modern humans. In
Europe, such items are not recorded until after 45,000
radiocarbon years ago, in Neandertal-associated contexts
that significantly predate the earliest evidence, archaeological
or paleontological, for the immigration of modern humans;
thus, they represent either independent invention or acquisition
of the concept by long-distance diffusion, implying in both cases
comparable levels of cognitive capability and performance. The
emergence of figurative art postdates c. 32,000 radiocarbon years
ago, several millennia after the time of Neandertal/modern human
contact. These temporal patterns suggest that the emergence of
'behavioral modernity' was triggered by demographic and social
processes and is not a species-specific phenomenon"

I would like the 2 of us to discuss specifically what the demographic
and social processes MIGHT have been based on all archaeological
evidence available. Hopefully, other sci.archers would be interested
in what we say and would join in.

The rope you have is related directly to *your* putting forth the
effort to show that you understand and can talk about the Conard
article.

If you haven't guessed by now, I am an unusually free spirit,
independent
of your rope.

Just tossing a bunch of stuff against the barn and expecting other
folks to dig into it, with no original effort on your part, will
result in the rope bringing you, after a short drop, to a sudden stop,
and a 'snap' of your neck.

That is not what was going on. Instead, I gave comprehensive
background
for sci.archers on what Conard thinks... a sign of a good teacher to
get
everybody onto the same page.

BTW, please do not send me emails unless I request you to do so. I
will respect the privacy of your first email to me. Any further such
unwanted emails from you and I will consider that you have given me
permission to post the contents on-line.

Do not do it again.

I have no concern about privacy because my email was an example
of collegiality - the manner in which educators interact with one
another, and the extent to which they approach their work as
professionals.

I strongly suspect that my background as a teacher is totally unknown
to you.


.

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