Re: The Dawn of Art

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:19:58 -0000, in sci.archaeology, Tom McDonald
wrote:

On Oct 7, 6:52 pm, David <pchristain...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 7, 5:08 pm, Tom McDonald <kilt...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



Even now, he does not seem to see that posting quotations from others,
and either asking for agreement/comments, or stating that the quoted
person's ideas are either valid (because they have an academic
background), or controversial, or both.

He promises to summarize the ideas of Conards from the Archaeology
article (although I don't think he has troubled to read the whole
Archaeology article; although even that article is inadequate to
really discuss what Conard is getting at). I think it'll be another
exercise in futility, for the reasons both of us have presented.

But I'm going to give him a little rope and see if he, once again,
hangs himself with it.

I heartily thank Tom McDonald for giving me a little rope even
though Tom does not have the follow-thru to study João Zilhão's
original paper OR

Read it. So?

Richard Rudgley's SECRETS OF THE STONE AGE SERIEShttp://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/troufs/anth1602/video/Secrets.html
&
THE LOST CIVILIZATIONS OF THE STONE AGE (see Amazon.com)

Derivative and behind the times. So?

It shows he doesn't know much about the book and its reception by other
archaeologists that he just points us to a couple of urls with no comment.


-------------

Next, see discussion in sci.arch thread "The Dawn of Art: a preview"
(Aug 24, 2007) - Jack Linthicum, Michael Kuettner, Melodious Thunk,
Uwe Müller

--------------

Nicholas Conard's references from João Zilhão's original paper -

Conard, N. J. (2003). Palaeolithic ivory sculptures from southwestern
Germany and the origins of figurative art. Nature 426: 830-832.

Conard, N. J., and Bolus, M. (2003). Radiocarbon dating the
appearance of modern humans and timing of cultural innovations
in Europe: New results and new challenges. Journal of Human
Evolution 44: 331-371.

Conard, H. J., and Uerpmann, H.-P. (2000). New evidence for
Paleolithic rock painting in central Europe. Current Anthropology
41: 853-856.

Conard, N. J., Grootes, P. M., and Smith, F. H. (2004a).
Unexpectedly recent dates for human remains from
Vogelherd. Nature 430: 198-201.

Conard, N. J., Malina, M., Münzel, S. C., and Seeberger,
F. (2004b). Eine Mammuthelfenbeinflöte aus dem Aurignacien
des Geißenklösterle: Neue Belege für eine musikalische
Tradtion im Frühen Jungpaläolithikum auf der Schwäbischen
Alb. Archäologisches Korrespondenzblatt 34: 447-462.

------------------

Here's how interested sci.archers can trawl the net to follow up
on Nicholas Conard's conclusions themselves -

Google "Nicholas Conard" and cull -

Conard's current articleshttp://www.urgeschichte.uni-tuebingen.de/index.php?id=43

Also, go to Home on left pane to click mammoth 25.06.07
for the excavations at the bird stove.

Ancient Figurines Found-From First Modern Humans?
National Geographic News - John Roachhttp://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/12/1217_031217_modernhum...

Ivory bird displays ancient skill
BBC News Online science staff - Jonathan Amoshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3328229.stm

"The Pattern and Timing of the Colonization of
Europe by Modern Humans" - Conard and Bolushttp://www.the-conference.com/JConfAbs/6/BG03.pdf

"The cultural context of the Aurignacian of the Swabian Jura"
Michael Bolushttp://www.ipa.min-cultura.pt/pubs/TA/folder/33/152-163.pdf

------------

Google "Nicholas Conard" swabian and cull -

Highlights:
Excavations at Vogelherd Cave in southwestern Germany
produce spectacular new artworks from the Ice Age
Researchers from Tübingen recover the first complete mammoth ivory
figurine

http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/uni/qvo/highlights/h54-eiszeit-en.html

"Palaeolithic ivory sculptures from southwestern Germany
and the origins of figurative art" - Nicholas Conard
NATURE |VOL 426 | 18/25 DECEMBER 2003 nature.com/naturehttp://www.urgeschichte.uni-tuebingen.de/fileadmin/downloads/Conard/C...

"Fully symbolic communication and cultural modernity may well have
existed earlier in other regions, but nowhere is the concrete evidence
for cultural modernity in the form of numerous figurative depictions
combined with the regular manufacture and use of ornaments
and the presence of musical instruments demonstrated earlier than
in Swabia4.
Because most Aurignacian deposits have produced no diagnostic
human remains, there is no proof as to which hominid created these
assemblages20. If, however, one assumes that modern humans
produced these assemblages, the Aurignacian of Swabia suggests
an early migration of modern humans along the Danube Corridor
into the interior of the continent4. The Aurignacian appears
suddenly in Swabia, and nowhere in Swabia is an interstratification
of Middle Palaeolithic and Aurignacian assemblages documented.
At several key sites an occupational hiatus is recorded in the strata
below the Aurignacian. The 'population vacuum' hypothesis4,21
postulates that modern humans migrated via the Danube Corridor
into Swabia immediately after a cold arid period, most probably the
terrestrial equivalent of the Heinrich 4 event dating to ,38-40 kyr
(refs 22, 23). This harsh climatic phase ended suddenly with the
start of Dansgaard-Oeschger cycle IS 8, which dates to roughly
38 kyr. This could explain why modern humans apparently arrived
in an empty or largely depopulated region. Early Upper Palaeolithic
migrations of modern humans also occurred along the Mediterranean
coast and other routes. Innovations spread rapidly and
regional variation ensued24,25. The Swabian Jura preserves outstanding
evidence for the early Aurignacian, and is one of several
key areas of cultural florescence at the beginning of the Upper
Palaeolithic."

And so forth...

Is this going to be your summary of Conard's arguments in the
Archaeology article with which you started the thread?

Alternatively, what do you want to talk about out of the mish-mash
above?

The rope you have is related directly to *your* putting forth the
effort to show that you understand and can talk about the Conard
article.

Just tossing a bunch of stuff against the barn and expecting other
folks to dig into it, with no original effort on your part, will
result in the rope bringing you, after a short drop, to a sudden stop,
and a 'snap' of your neck.

Another unfulfilled promise it appears. As I said, he can't do it, he
doesn't have the background.

BTW, please do not send me emails unless I request you to do so. I
will respect the privacy of your first email to me. Any further such
unwanted emails from you and I will consider that you have given me
permission to post the contents on-line.

Do not do it again.
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Dawn of Art
    ... really discuss what Conard is getting at). ... Ancient Figurines Found-From First Modern Humans? ... "The cultural context of the Aurignacian of the Swabian Jura" ... suddenly in Swabia, and nowhere in Swabia is an interstratification ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: The Dawn of Art
    ... really discuss what Conard is getting at). ... Ancient Figurines Found-From First Modern Humans? ... "The cultural context of the Aurignacian of the Swabian Jura" ... suddenly in Swabia, and nowhere in Swabia is an interstratification ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: News: Neanderthals and Humans: Perhaps They Never Met
    ... The number of years that modern humans are thought to have overlapped ... Neanderthals lived in Europe and western Asia from 230,000 to 29,000 ... record when it comes to the early Aurignacian, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: News: Neanderthals and Humans: Perhaps They Never Met
    ... The number of years that modern humans are thought to have overlapped ... Neanderthals lived in Europe and western Asia from 230,000 to 29,000 ... record when it comes to the early Aurignacian, ...
    (talk.origins)
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