Re: Understanding the History of Ancient Israel

Alan Crozier wrote:
"Peter Alaca." <p.alaca@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:47907bba$0$64647$dbd45001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
roger.pearse@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote, On 18/01/2008 10:10:
On 18 Jan, 05:32, Matt Giwer <jul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
roger.pea...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On 16 Jan, 04:15, Matt Giwer <jul...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
The name Easter comes from the goddess Ishtar the wife of
Adonis
under the name of Attis. This is a vernal equinox celebration.
Easter is an anglo-saxon word, and can hardly have any such
etymology.
That is a new claim. Just WHAT Anglo-Saxon word might it be?
The word is 'Eostre', and is referenced in Bede "De ratione temporum"
as a pagan goddess of the dawn.
Why would we believe Bede?

I think Bede is a more reliable source for Anglo-Saxon history than Matt
Giwer.

I asked a question. "Just WHAT Anglo-Saxon word might it be?" I have never claimed to be any kind of expert on A-S history. Rather I have questioned the indiscriminate use of the term.

But that does not give Bede any credentials in etymology. It is always legitimate to ask how he knew. Better men than him, Aristotle for example, had an answer for everything no matter how ridiculous.

Easter in Romance languages is Pasch or something of that form.
"Pasen" in Dutch, which is a Germanic language

Now that particular word DOES go back to the Middle East, the Hebrew
Pesach or Passover feast, which became the name for the Christian Easter
in Greek and Latin, spread by missionaries all over Europe. All that is
well documented, unlike the evidence for missionaries of Ishtar coming
to Anglo-Saxon England.

It is only the current mythology which holds the Judeans were monotheists even though evidence to the contrary is right there in the first of the big ten commandments. All but believers have accepted the evidence of the worship of Astarte in bibleland in general and Jerusalem in particular. That the creators of the Septuagint co-opted the vernal equinox for their Yahweh cult is clear if you do not have preconceptions to the contrary.

No ones claims there were any missionaries for any of the many forms of the Ishtar story. We find them prominent in Mesopotamia and Egypt as far back as the civilizations go. There were four thousand years for the mythology to diffuse before the earliest possible start of the Judean and Christian reimaginings of the story. Long before the Goths were Goths they would have been exposed to the stories through their trading with the middle east and later with the Greeks and Romans.

By the time the Goths became Goths and had a go at the western Empire they were already Christians with its version of the vernal equinox mythology which would have the Ishtar components of the Christian version of the story more prominent. Those are the people who are going to expand into Britain as everyone here appears to agree in not objecting to the word being A-S.

So there is a clear path to Britain and English even before consider the Roman version of the myth had been brought there by the Romans centuries before. And about the time the Romans gained a foothold on the islands they were starting their infatuation with eastern religions so we would expect them to be in the islands as Roman citizens kept up with the fads in Rome. And Caesar started the interest in the Isis/Osiris version of Egypt.

Of course people did not keep the kind of records we do even if there had been an interest in documenting such things in any manner. This is why we do not have explicit evidence of the spread and reimagining of this myth. So I up front and always have that we do not have and likely never will have what constitutes physical evidence of this because it unlikely it was ever documented in the first place.

This is where history differs from archaeology and why I have an interest in ancient history. People did not think the same way back then. The farther back the more different from us.

BUT any fault you will find in my approach also exists in any popularly accepted version of how it happened. Other opinions are also surmises and inferences because whoever made them did not have our kinds of records to work with either.

But in this case there are so many variations upon the same basic story that it is impossible to find anything unique enough to say it stands alone about any of them. We can find A Midsummer's Night Dream in Forbidden Planet without looking too hard and the Christian version is not nearly as that different.

--
If you believe the purpose of government is to serve the people then realize
To Serve The People and to Serve Man are both cookbooks.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3913
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/holo-survivors.phtml a3
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Can you love your enemy and still kill him
    ... the lack of such evidence does not ... > there is any proof of his existence. ... As far as the Romans go, I don't believe they *did* keep excellent ... tradition independent of Christian writings. ...
    (rec.arts.books.tolkien)
  • Re: A Shout Out to the Jews....
    ... celebrate Easter! ... he was killed by the romans. ... The evidence is just ... Perhaps stronger than most. ...
    (alt.sports.football.pro.ne-patriots)
  • Re: Jesus Christ -- Clashing Biblical Images
    ... Is that supposed to be cast-iron evidence? ... emperor we have evidence of a Christian NT that largely looks the same ... Most ancient texts have had a very quiet life ... How many Gutenburg Bibles, or copies of Foxes Book of Martyrs have been carbon dated... ...
    (soc.history.medieval)
  • Rays "debate".
    ... > bias appointing itself referee. ... both for the Christian Old Testament and the Judaic Tanahk. ... >> is my custom to look first at the oldest evidence, ... From the Ugarit texts ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Is Ron O. Brain damaged?
    ... contradictions in the "textual evidence". ... Dana Tweedy claims to be a Christian. ... Ray do you admit your opinion is "atheist ideology"? ... you are the one who "agrees with atheists" against the Bible. ...
    (talk.origins)