Re: Greek timeline fall: Critias identified as Plato!! Glaucon too old!


<atsarisborn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ab459480-d3dd-48a3-9eb2-1fb214e69a39@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jan 30, 8:28 pm, "Lars Wilson" <siaxa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Let's see how smart the archaeology scientists are. Some say certain
things
cannot be taught but you have to have a "knack" for them. I think
[snip]

Lars Wilson

No, dear. You're the one who isn't very bright.

That's potentially true--I'm not always that bright and make mistakes!!

There is no motive for
any of this conspiracy of deception that,

You mean that you can imagine. I give the motive: MONEY. Money and/or
love are two of the greatest motivators. So indeed there was motive.

per you, crossed innumerable
geographic and national boundaries and involved hundreds of people who
had no motive to forget 34 years or is it 53?

No, no, no. You are not following the facts here. Everybody was not
involved
in the conspiracy. Just Xenophon, paid off by the Persian big money, who in
turn
enlisted the help of his small circle of friends, Plato, Aristotle and
apparently Plato's
students to pull this off. This was done AFTER Thucycides wrote his
history of the
Peloponnesian War. So he was not involved. Hundreds of people were not
involved,
at least not on the Greek side. Others who were not involved and reported
things
going on during their lives all now have chronology problems. Like the
report that
Plato was consulted during the PPW to solve a math problem (i.e. "The Delian
Problem") which now occurs 3 years before he was born, etc.

So PLEASE, don't imagine past the specifics and create a straw man. This
only involved
changing a few records for this small circle of men who were PAID to get
this done. Xenophon
is the only Greek historian whose complete works survive. Plato and
Xenophon had to
edit the works of Socrates, each publishing his dialogues but they didn't
correct everything
in the context. Socrates' history was moved back in time 28 years when the
PPW was
moved back in time from 403 BCE to 431 BCE. Can you see? They didn't want
Socrates to fade from history so they both made sure his dialogues were
published but
at the same time they edited those dialogues for historical content. There
were lots of
other historians who were not involved but all their histories don't
survive!!!

So look at the logistics! How difficult would it have been, if you had
money, to simply
buy up ancient historical works that had to be handwritten anyway, and then
destroy
or edit them, making your own copies that then became the official version?
Not difficult.
They probably knew precisely how many copies were made and who owned the
copies.
It wasn't that difficult. And the motive ws MONEY. The Persians were rich
and clearly
Xenophon is well into Persian history, writing the history of Cyrus, etc.
So the pieces
do fit together if you will just LOOK closely, compare the actual evidence,
and not
create an imaginary conspiracy bigger than it really was.

And it wrecks the
chronologies we actually have, such as the Olympiads and the lists of
winners of tragedy prizes.

NO, it does not! This is where you need specific information. It does not
wreck
the chronologies we have, it CORRECTS/EXPLAINS it. One chronology we
"have" is that Plato was consulted about doubling the size of a cube in
order to
stop a plague. He didn't deal with it himself but delegated it to some
mathematicians
including one that solved it, Archytas. Right now that "chronology" doesn't
work
since the war begins 3 years before Plato is born. The correction makes
Plato
25 years old when the war begins. So definitely, you have to be specific
about
which "chronology" you have in mind.

As far as the Olympiad dating goes, anyone dealing with chronology knows
that
the Olympiad years were assigned later on, so is no issue. It's like today
saying that
Shishak invaded in 925 BCE. We assigned that dating after the birth of
Christ. That was
not the dating system used by them then. Likewise, after the timeline had
been set, someone
then later on figured out which Olympiad would go where, but that was after
the fact. Nobody
was counting the Olympiads...



Above is an interesting discussion about Olympiad dating and how it works.
It notes
discrepancies and how the Olympiads were applied to events after the fact
counting backwards
in time. They used various sources to go back in time, including such
documents as the
Babylonian Chronicle, which we know was revised. So it is no different than
today where
we just assign years to the timeline, but different years get assigned
depending upon which
historical source you use. The Bible's timeline differs from the secular
timeline at points,
so what BC dates you apply varies too. So you concept of how reliable
Olympiad
dating is, is erroneous but certainly a common misconception.

Here is a typical example of misapplication of Olympiads:

Also other sources, including Ptolemy's canon, point to the year 539 B.C.E.
as the date for Babylon's fall. For example, ancient historians such as
Diodorus, Africanus and Eusebius show that Cyrus' first year as king of
Persia corresponded to Olympiad 55, year 1 (560/59 B.C.E.), while Cyrus'
last year is placed at Olympiad 62, year 2 (531/30 B.C.E.). (The years of
the olympiads ran from approximately July 1 to the following June 30.)
Cuneiform tablets give Cyrus a rule of nine years over Babylon. This would
harmonize with the accepted date for the start of his rule over Babylon in
539 B.C.E.

See? The timeline is set up first and then someone just filled in the
Olympiads based on that timeline, so
Olympiad dating is subjective just like BC dating is. The timeline used
determines the assignment not the
other way around. So in this discussion, the Olympiad issue is moot. It's
not a consideration here. When
the timeline is corrected, then the Olympiads will simply be reassigned,
period.

But thanks for your comments.

It doesn't make any sense at all, and
nothing you have said has convinced anyone.

It may not have convinced YOU, yet, but it does make sense because lots of
people sell out
if the price is right! What does not make sense is Plato being consulted 3
years before his
birth. What does not make sense is Plato's brothers 41 years older than
Plato as they were
the same age group as Socrates. What is irrelevant is the Olympiad dating
you bring up
since that is a late convention after the fact. In the meantime, everything
points to Xenophon
revising Thucydides and he was deeply into Persian affairs and history.

As far as "convincing" everybody. I don't have to do that. I just have to
weaken or destroy
the credibility of the Greek historians for this period, which is easy to
do. Once you catch
them in a lie or a contradiction then they get moved out of the way for
other chronologies.
No one can defend Plato being consulted before he was born, right? Well I'm
claiming he
was actually and specifically 25 years old. Herodotus is called the
"Father of history"
AND the "father of LIES." I wonder why? Plato is immediately indicted as
a co-conspirator
with Xenophon because he provides us the dialogues of Socrates, all written
by Socrates
himself in the first person. They changed the daing for Socrates so they
had no choice.
Socrates' own writings could have been preserved on their own merit. When
they go through
Xenophon and Plato they would have been edited.

Some people just want to believe in conspiracies. They're the ones who
aren't very bright.

Jean Coeur de Lapin

ROFL! That might be generally true, but right now you want me to believe
that in 430 BCE Plato was consulted about a math problem, when he was born
in 428 BCE? I'm saying he was actually 25 years of age if you match the
precise
description of an eclipse that doesn't work in 431 BCE. Now, are you saying
it
is "brighter" to believe Plato could have been consulted before his birth?
Or that
it doesn't matter if an eclipse description matches the eclipse? Compared
to my
position where I have a matched eclipse and a man who was already born
before he gets consulted? And YOU, who do not understand how the Olympiads
work as far as chronology? You should just look up how the Olympiad
dating
begins. Just Google "chronology Olympiads" and you'll get lots of
information.

Also Google "The Delian Problem".

Here's some background on the 431 vs 402 BCE eclipse.

http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/402PIC.JPG

http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/403darkcomp.JPG

And there is a LOT MORE to come!!

Thanks for your comment!!! Have a nice day.

Lars Wilson

http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html












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