Re: Kris Hirst's page on Why Don't We Call Them Cro-Magnon Anymore? updated

On Feb 13, 1:12 pm, Doug Weller <dwel...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:56:00 -0800 (PST), in sci.archaeology, J.LyonLayden
wrote:





On Feb 13, 1:45 am, Doug Weller <dwel...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:50:33 -0800 (PST), in sci.archaeology, J.LyonLayden
wrote:

snip

I believe you.  I know Kris and I knew that if she looked at the article
again she would update it. So, yes, I wrote to her explaining that her
post was being used to support the idea of giants (right?).

How fair. You have her email and can frame the "reasons" for your
insistance any way you like, whereas I do not have the opportunitty to
present my case. She probably doesn't really care one way or the
other. After all, it's POSSIBLE that cro-magnon wasn't as tall as it
looks like he was from the evidence before 26,000 BC. It is
CONCEIVABLE that all those tall skeletons we found were not the norm
and due to lack of enough bones we cannot safely make the assertation
that they were any taller than we are now...

You've just used the word skeleton -- a skeleton is a more or less
complete collection of bones. What do you think we have for the handful of
Cro-Magnon speciemens we have.

But c'mon Doug you know it is most probable that cro-magnon was taller
and more robust than us. You also know that we are taller and more
robust than we have been in perhaps 1000 years due to modern medicine
finally compensating for the malnutrition resultant of agriculture and
civilization.

But are the figures you want to stick for accurate? 5' 10" would still be
tall.

Certainly you acknowledge some difference in stature between the first
malnutritioned agriculturalists and the last of the robust
huntergatherers, long before the hunter gatherers were pushed into the
less fertile lands and hence suffered from malnutrition as well?

It would definitely not surprise me but I would like to know the
specifics.

It really isn't a conspiracy.  I was unhappy with the way she had a title
that said Why we don't call them Cro-Magnon any more and yet continued to
refer to Cro-Magnon, and pointed out that she needed to check on more
current information about height.

Which she prolly didn't do and instead took your "It takes a Village"
policing for granted and did the ol' delete/copy/paste.
She certainly didn't go out and remeasure specimens in a days time.

No, she didn't do that or just cut and paste, it is clear that she did
some more research, I only mentioned Loring Brace and she doesn't mention
him.

Sorry if you weren't clear, that's why it says 'updated' in the subject
line, the article was updated.  

As you have probably guessed, it is rare to find a complete skeleton and
over time, for a species in a given time period, you will find different
figures for something like height which has to be estimated from the
material that is available.

So now you want the estimate to be over a WHOPPING 40,000 years
instead of even the first 10,000 so that no one will be able to use
the word giant anymore and you'll be finally, utterly vindicated for
your suppositions.

No, I want it for different time periods.

I think the idea of giants comes from a variety of sources, some being
confusing fossils such as leg bones of other mammals with human fossils,
some being the fact that there are 'sports', extremely tall people, etc,
plus an explanation for giant ruins, etc.

That's what YOU think. Could we please be allowed to think as well
without having the information sifted to us through a grate so that we
won't get any ideas of our own?

But you won't be specific, you go hundreds of thousands of years back for
instance, why?

Because my case is to show that it is entirely POSSIBLE and in fact
even PROBABLE that a population of cro-magnons averaging above 6'
roamed the world sometime between 40,000 and 15,000, when agriculture
was just beginning and there were still cool monsters, hobbits, and
soloensis goblins around.

Again, we are talking about HSS who was evolving at this time and was not
the same all over the world. Is this worldwide roaming an integral part of
your story?

Yes. The scene I wrote above would be set somewhere in the middle
east- where you have cro-magnons to the north and proto-Natufians in
the south.

But I believe that distance travelling was much more common than most
conservativer scientists like to admit during that age. There were
people apparently going back and forth between Australia and Sundaland
and between Asia and the Americas, maybe some of them even homo
erectus. I haven't decided whether the "galleys" should be skin or
reed yet, though.

Anyway, it might be a little more far fetched and I am going to have
to depend on storms and exoduses and such in order to get people where
I want them, but it is necessary to my protagonists roam in order to
paint a picture that reads like fantasy instead of boring Jean Aule.
Unfortunately, all the monsters and goblins weren't on the same
continent.





Doug







 >But Nephilim? Nah, they aren't
any more real than those giants with double rows of teeth.

How do you have any idea? You don't even know what a nephelim IS, or
what the word meant to those ancient people.

Nor you.

I hope to find time to report more on what Adrienne Mayor has to say about
giants at some point.

And I hope to one day find a scientist with balls. pretty hard when
you get canned for reporting early tool making sites in america,
utterly silenced for finding crib-bit on horses in the paleolithic,
and harassed for giving seperate heights for two different ages of cro-
magnon!!

That is an idiotic and ignorant statement. You don't get canned for
reporting early tool making sites in America, name one archaeologist or
anyone else who was (and look at all the reports in the last decade or 2,
they are growing in number and according to you there shouldn't be any)..

Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'athttp://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/

--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'athttp://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site:http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/- Hide quoted text -

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